e-scooter crash

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  • axisusaxisus Frets: 28280

    All these things should have, at least, a bell by law. 
    Better than that, a compulsory fitting that emits an audible noise when you are in x distance of a person.
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  • axisusaxisus Frets: 28280

    Another alternative is that when someones riding wheels in a pedestrian space, people should be encouraged to knock them off. If the wheel-rider is more than inconvenienced by this, they're going too fast. 

    Whaaaaattt?

    Did I really just read that .....
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  • sev112sev112 Frets: 2739
    As a historical (hysterical ?) cyclist, driver, Walker and runner, the ones I am also worried about are runners, esp stocky ones.  They always run in the pavement, the majority have headphones in, and they don’t move and I have seen a few accidents when they have hit pedestrians (2!times) and one cyclist when the runner just ran into the road and knocked the cyclist further out into the road and the car that was overtaking the cyclist right into the other lane ! Yet runners do not have licenses, insurance and go faster on the pavement than the cyclists round here 
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  • GrangousierGrangousier Frets: 2621
    edited July 2021
    FFS.. that's beyond stupid
    Well, it is a joke. I mean, I don't think there actually is a solution, because it's not a problem of technology, it's a problem of people. Everybody thinks they're fine, and everyone else is the problem, including me. But people walking around can't really do anything, and it's possible to move faster on wheels than your brain can process (and that's not that fast). My point was that if someone is moving fast enough that they would get hurt if they came off, and they're around people, well... that's too fast. I thought it was funny to turn the people walking around from just animated bollards you swerve around at speed and try not to hit into some kind of threat. 
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  • HaychHaych Frets: 5596
    crunchman said:
    Haych said:
    Have e-bikes and e-scooters come under the A1 license category, or maybe category P/Q.

    So are you want to make my 9 year old daughter get a license before I can take her out for a bike ride?

    Come back when you have a more sensible idea.
    Why not?  I had to get a licence for a bloody fishing rod when I was a lad, why should an ebike licence be any more difficult to manage.  

    Got a licence for your TV?  Your nine year old watch that?  So she's licensed by proxy of you?  There's another idea - parents taking responsibility for their brats so if they run granny over the parent is culpable.  So require the parents to get the licence/permit/paperwork or whatever and add the child on the condition of responsibility for their child's actions.

    Doesn't have to be administered through the DVSA, although I already see that under Cat Q it looks like they might be trialing e-scooters.

    Or it could be something done through the school, similar to how we once upon a time used to have a cycling proficiency course.

    The point is, it requires more than just taking an escooter out of a box and setting off down the pavement on it.  It requires some kind of recognition that the machine is potentially deadly and needs a degree of care in its operation.


    There is no 'H' in Aych, you know that don't you? ~ Wife

    Turns out there is an H in Haych! ~ Sporky

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  • crunchmancrunchman Frets: 11413
    Haych said:
    crunchman said:
    Haych said:
    Have e-bikes and e-scooters come under the A1 license category, or maybe category P/Q.

    So are you want to make my 9 year old daughter get a license before I can take her out for a bike ride?

    Come back when you have a more sensible idea.
    Why not?  I had to get a licence for a bloody fishing rod when I was a lad, why should an ebike licence be any more difficult to manage.  

    Got a licence for your TV?  Your nine year old watch that?  So she's licensed by proxy of you?  There's another idea - parents taking responsibility for their brats so if they run granny over the parent is culpable.  So require the parents to get the licence/permit/paperwork or whatever and add the child on the condition of responsibility for their child's actions.

    Doesn't have to be administered through the DVSA, although I already see that under Cat Q it looks like they might be trialing e-scooters.

    Or it could be something done through the school, similar to how we once upon a time used to have a cycling proficiency course.

    The point is, it requires more than just taking an escooter out of a box and setting off down the pavement on it.  It requires some kind of recognition that the machine is potentially deadly and needs a degree of care in its operation.



    I'm not a fan of E scooters, but asking kids to get a license to ride a bike is ridiculous.  You can go faster on a conventional bike than on a legal E bike, so there is no point licensing E bikes unless you are going to license all bikes - which is a total non-starter.
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  • HaychHaych Frets: 5596
    crunchman said:
    I'm not a fan of E scooters, but asking kids to get a license to ride a bike is ridiculous.  You can go faster on a conventional bike than on a legal E bike, so there is no point licensing E bikes unless you are going to license all bikes - which is a total non-starter.
    Yeah, I do get your point.

    But if you're asking for solutions then you throw everything out there and see what sticks, daft as it might seem at the time.

    That said, there's going to be a crossover with e-bikes and e-motorcycles a some point as battery powered motorcycles become more prolific.  I was almost mown down by an e-bike in the middle of Newport a couple of years ago, it was going some lick so they are capable machines and arguably much more dangerous than motorcycles, simply because you don't need any official training, licensing or insurance to put one on the road.

    I can't see them at some point not being categorised as mopeds or something, or a separate licence category being created for them.

    That's just my two pence worth.

    There is no 'H' in Aych, you know that don't you? ~ Wife

    Turns out there is an H in Haych! ~ Sporky

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  • ReverendReverend Frets: 4974
    crunchman said:
    Haych said:
    crunchman said:
    Haych said:
    Have e-bikes and e-scooters come under the A1 license category, or maybe category P/Q.

    So are you want to make my 9 year old daughter get a license before I can take her out for a bike ride?

    Come back when you have a more sensible idea.
    Why not?  I had to get a licence for a bloody fishing rod when I was a lad, why should an ebike licence be any more difficult to manage.  

    Got a licence for your TV?  Your nine year old watch that?  So she's licensed by proxy of you?  There's another idea - parents taking responsibility for their brats so if they run granny over the parent is culpable.  So require the parents to get the licence/permit/paperwork or whatever and add the child on the condition of responsibility for their child's actions.

    Doesn't have to be administered through the DVSA, although I already see that under Cat Q it looks like they might be trialing e-scooters.

    Or it could be something done through the school, similar to how we once upon a time used to have a cycling proficiency course.

    The point is, it requires more than just taking an escooter out of a box and setting off down the pavement on it.  It requires some kind of recognition that the machine is potentially deadly and needs a degree of care in its operation.



    I'm not a fan of E scooters, but asking kids to get a license to ride a bike is ridiculous.  You can go faster on a conventional bike than on a legal E bike, so there is no point licensing E bikes unless you are going to license all bikes - which is a total non-starter.
    Average speeds on the tour de france are 21-25mph Many e-scooters are capable of 30-40. In fact there are e-scooterscapable of hitting 75mph
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  • crunchmancrunchman Frets: 11413
    Reverend said:
    crunchman said:
    Haych said:
    crunchman said:
    Haych said:
    Have e-bikes and e-scooters come under the A1 license category, or maybe category P/Q.

    So are you want to make my 9 year old daughter get a license before I can take her out for a bike ride?

    Come back when you have a more sensible idea.
    Why not?  I had to get a licence for a bloody fishing rod when I was a lad, why should an ebike licence be any more difficult to manage.  

    Got a licence for your TV?  Your nine year old watch that?  So she's licensed by proxy of you?  There's another idea - parents taking responsibility for their brats so if they run granny over the parent is culpable.  So require the parents to get the licence/permit/paperwork or whatever and add the child on the condition of responsibility for their child's actions.

    Doesn't have to be administered through the DVSA, although I already see that under Cat Q it looks like they might be trialing e-scooters.

    Or it could be something done through the school, similar to how we once upon a time used to have a cycling proficiency course.

    The point is, it requires more than just taking an escooter out of a box and setting off down the pavement on it.  It requires some kind of recognition that the machine is potentially deadly and needs a degree of care in its operation.



    I'm not a fan of E scooters, but asking kids to get a license to ride a bike is ridiculous.  You can go faster on a conventional bike than on a legal E bike, so there is no point licensing E bikes unless you are going to license all bikes - which is a total non-starter.
    Average speeds on the tour de france are 21-25mph Many e-scooters are capable of 30-40. In fact there are e-scooterscapable of hitting 75mph

    I wasn't talking about E Scooters.  I was talking about bikes.  E bikes are a subset of bikes, but the electrical assistance on a legal one cuts out at 15mph, not 30 to 40mph.

    E Scooters that can do more than 10mph should be banned on public roads and pavements - not just licensed.

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  • TimmyOTimmyO Frets: 7350
    ICBM said:
    The situation at present is ridiculous and makes the law an ass, because it's openly flouted. They need to be made legal, because then they can be insured, and more effectively regulated and policed. If they aren't legal to use then the only sensible alternative is to completely ban them from sale.

    But it's not actually the technology that's the problem - there's no real difference in outcome here from if the child had been hit by a pushbike.
    ^ this.

    In Singapore - a famously "you can't do that" state - they legalised them quickly long with the requirement to be insured, and harsh penalty for using uninsured, and it was enforced. Consequently people pootle along sensibly on pavements in and out of pedestrians and it seems to work fine. 

    Most (not all) of the ones I've seen in the UK have been being effectively joyridden dangerously and exuberantly 
    Red ones are better. 
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  • BridgehouseBridgehouse Frets: 24579
    There’s a significant difference between an e-bike and an e-scooter.

    There’s less of a difference between an e-scooter and an electric moped. 

    Any powered vehicle capable of going faster than 15mph should be licensed and have rules apply to them. 
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  • crunchmancrunchman Frets: 11413
    There’s a significant difference between an e-bike and an e-scooter.

    There’s less of a difference between an e-scooter and an electric moped. 

    Any powered vehicle capable of going faster than 15mph should be licensed and have rules apply to them. 

    Should be 20mph not 15mph (for bikes at least).  You can easily get to 20mph on a pushbike.  We need to be encouraging people to get out of their cars so adding paperwork to discourage that is not good.

    Like I said above, or maybe in the other thread, if you allow E bikes to do 20 mph while restricting E scooters to 10 mph, then there is more incentive to get a bike not a scooter, which is far safer for everyone.
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  • YorkieYorkie Frets: 1451
    Reverend said:
    Many e-scooters are capable of 30-40. In fact there are e-scooterscapable of hitting 75mph
    That's fucking terrifying. 
    Adopted northerner with Asperger syndrome. I sometimes struggle with empathy and sarcasm – please bear with me.   
    My trading feedback: https://www.thefretboard.co.uk/discussion/210335/yorkie

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  • hollywoodroxhollywoodrox Frets: 4085
    octatonic said:
    I think bicycles are worse , I’ve been hit by a kid on a small bike at relatively low speed ripped my jeans leg and cut , but if you got hit by a mountain bike type thing that kids and teens wheely through town It would be worse .  To be fair a lot of disability scooters are ridden by people who don’t know what they’re doing half the time and some go along at quite a clip.

    i used to ride my bmx on the pavement as it was safer , car riders are notoriously bad here 
    If regulation gets involved , you’ll probably end up having to wear a helmet , tax insurance etc and once again people who are less well off will suffer 
    Currently.
    But they are illegal so you are only getting a relatively small number of people riding them.

    The thing about e-scooters was they are small, light and fast.
    You can fold them up and take them on public transport.
    You can carry them into places.
    They are convenient and fit into people's lives better than bikes do.

    Bikes are bigger, heavier, more easily stolen (because you have to lock them up outside) and you can't take them into shops.
    You're also supposed to ride the on the road, which most people do.

    What this means in practical terms is you will see a lot of the-scooters on the footpaths if they are legalised.
    My year in Singapore was spent dodging commuters and delivery drivers riding on footpaths, usually on their phones.
    At night you don't hear them and you don't see them.

    If/when mass adoption occurs you will see what I mean.
    Make town centres car free and the scooters can go on the road safely with e bikes  while cutting down on pollution and gridlocks 
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  • ewalewal Frets: 2558
    I live in a rural backwater, as such I don't think I've ever seen an e-scooter in the local area. Maybe when I've been to Edinburgh, however they're a lot more fancy.

    What I do know about my town, Perth, is that everyone drives everywhere, because congestion, whilst occasionally bad, is easily avoidable, and parking in town is relatively plentiful. We have loads of empty pavements, because few people walk, some of which in my opinion we could afford to convert to cycle paths, for the young, inexperienced and less confident people to get on their bikes. I suggested this at some point to those responsible for green travel plans, however they were not at all for it - they just could not countenance converting pedestrian space to cycling space.

    When I cycle, I do it on the road and it is largely a pleasurable experience, because most people driving are actually ok - just the occasional wank, just as you get wanks that sometimes ride bikes. You see it's wanks that are the problem, not the actual mode of travel - suspect that might also be the case for these e-things too.

    When my son cycles, I have no problem with him using the aforesaid empty pavements, because he is less experienced and still has a way to go before I'd be confident he new the rules of defensive riding. The one rule I would say he should follow, is to show respect to people walking, giving way whenever there is choice to be made. He will naturally start riding more on the road, as his confidence, maturity, keenness to get places quickly and experience grows.

    Trivial point - pushbike in my opinion is a pretty inaccurate term made up by people who ride motorbikes, so they can continue to look down their noses and differentiate themselves from people on bikes. Slightly 'grinds my gears'...
    The Scrambler-EE Walk soundcloud experience
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  • hollywoodroxhollywoodrox Frets: 4085

    crunchman said:
    I simply want to explore whether the claim that "it's not technology that is the problem" actually stands up to scrutiny or not. On the face of it, it doesn't seem to.

    Death and injury caused by cyclists exists, and it is well documented. Correct. But it isn't significant. Not when compared with cars, trucks, and other HGV's.

    It seems to me that these e-scooters are a lot more dangerous than bikes, because of a few things:

    - The type of person riding an e-scooter (usually younger, less experienced, less concerned with everyone around them, more of a modern "fuck you" attitude)
    - The type of places where e-scooters are ridden (you do see them predominantly on the pavement, in public parks, and I've even seen them in shopping malls and cinemas!)

    To me it seems that they're capable of greater speeds than bikes, faster acceleration, and in the wrong hands, are far more dangerous. 

    True, but you missed an important point.

    They have very small wheels relative to a bike.  If they hit a pothole (or an uneven paving stone if ridden on the pavement), you are much more likely to end up going over the bars than on a bike.

    My sister-in-law and her fiance are both plods in the Met.  They told me about an incident with someone on an E scooter who had gone over the bars and hit his head.  He was in a coma, and was expected to be a vegetable if he ever came out of it.  That was a couple of years ago when E scooters were a lot less common than they are now.

    I think it was said in the other thread that they should be limited to 10mph.  We really need to push cycling in preference to E scooters.  Change the law on Ebikes so that they can legally provide assistance up to 20 mph to encourage them rather than scooters.
     You’re looking at this from a well off perspective , I could justify spending a couple of hundred on an e scooter and it would get me to the surrounding out of town shops etc or the next towns  without having to pay £5 for the bus . I could not afford to buy or  justify an ebike unless it was about £299 399  they are currently at least £1500 quid  or half second hand i can’t justify spending that  
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  • hollywoodroxhollywoodrox Frets: 4085
    There are people who get head injuries skateboarding bmx ‘ing  it’s just one of those things you risk when you do this stuff , gang of kids today on the main road wheelying mountain bikes , but we don’t ban Or regulate them nor should we. Irresponsible yes , but haven’t we all done something like that .
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  • hollywoodroxhollywoodrox Frets: 4085
    crunchman said:
    Haych said:
    crunchman said:
    Haych said:
    Have e-bikes and e-scooters come under the A1 license category, or maybe category P/Q.

    So are you want to make my 9 year old daughter get a license before I can take her out for a bike ride?

    Come back when you have a more sensible idea.
    Why not?  I had to get a licence for a bloody fishing rod when I was a lad, why should an ebike licence be any more difficult to manage.  

    Got a licence for your TV?  Your nine year old watch that?  So she's licensed by proxy of you?  There's another idea - parents taking responsibility for their brats so if they run granny over the parent is culpable.  So require the parents to get the licence/permit/paperwork or whatever and add the child on the condition of responsibility for their child's actions.

    Doesn't have to be administered through the DVSA, although I already see that under Cat Q it looks like they might be trialing e-scooters.

    Or it could be something done through the school, similar to how we once upon a time used to have a cycling proficiency course.

    The point is, it requires more than just taking an escooter out of a box and setting off down the pavement on it.  It requires some kind of recognition that the machine is potentially deadly and needs a degree of care in its operation.



    I'm not a fan of E scooters, but asking kids to get a license to ride a bike is ridiculous.  You can go faster on a conventional bike than on a legal E bike, so there is no point licensing E bikes unless you are going to license all bikes - which is a total non-starter.
    I live in Torquay steep hills ,cyclist come down them at 40 mph or more , electric scooters are insignificant , you’re bound to get the odd accident that is very tragic , but you do with everything ,look at kids tomstoning off rocks 
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  • crosstownvampcrosstownvamp Frets: 268
    edited July 2021

    Well, it is a joke. I mean, I don't think there actually is a solution, because it's not a problem of technology, it's a problem of people. Everybody thinks they're fine, and everyone else is the problem, including me. But people walking around can't really do anything, and it's possible to move faster on wheels than your brain can process (and that's not that fast). My point was that if someone is moving fast enough that they would get hurt if they came off, and they're around people, well... that's too fast. I thought it was funny to turn the people walking around from just animated bollards you swerve around at speed and try not to hit into some kind of threat. 
    Fair enough - maybe pedestrians can get a taser force-field to give powered riders a wee shock when they get too close.

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  • tony99tony99 Frets: 7076
    I carry a mini-stinger (available from amazon) for any such occasion when these blerts might get too close to me when I'm out for my evening amble.

    I also carry pepper spray in case of aggressive beggars.
    Bollocks you don't know Bono !!
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