Dimarzio single coil - really low volume

Bidley

I've just got my RG back in action, and I notice the Dimarzio ISCV2/Evo middle (it's HSH, Humbucker from Hell in the neck, Fred in the bridge) is really quiet. Like, barely audible.

Is the pickup done for? I've reflowed the solder connections, and everywhere online suggests the black wire goes to the switch, and red to ground so I'm pretty sure that's right. I've got it wired the usual Ibanez way, so with a 5 way with splits+middle in positions 2 and 4.

ICBM

Just to make sure it isn’t the switch or your wiring, temporarily disconnect the middle pickup and the volume pot from the switch and connect the pickup directly to the volume pot. (You can just solder the two loose wires together if it’s easier.)

If you still get no output, the pickup is dead.

Funkfingers

If the pickup is functional, attention should turn to the selector switch.

What type of selector switch are you using?

Some Asian eight-contacts-in-line PCB lever switches follow the same two-pole convention as the traditional CRL item associated with Fender. Some have "bridging" connections between adjacent terminals to simplify soldering. Some of the OTAX switches look similar but have all sorts of fancy tracks on their PCBs. 

Bidley

I'll try that @ICBM ;

Funkfingers said:

What type of selector switch are you using?

Whatever was in my 1570 originally - 8-contact 5-way.

My wiring looks exactly like this (but obviously not nearly as neat) except where the diagram shows a wire from a contact on the switch to the casing of the switch, then another wire from the casing of the switch to ground, mine just has a wire from the same switch contact to ground. This should be functionally the same, right?

Funkfingers

The functionality of the auto coil split ground connection is identical UNLESS the centre pickup's ground conductor is soldered to the selector switch chassis rather than the volume pot.

When you operate the selector switch lever, is there much side to side slack?

Repeated, vigorous use of those eight-contacts-in-line switches can eventually cause the PCB and the contact wipers to come apart, weakening the signal that reaches the volume pot.

The Interweb informs me that the RG1570 was launched in 2003. Thus, if your selector switch is original, it could be approaching twenty years old. Five times the life expectancy that I would allow for that switch type!

Bidley

The switch still feels good, very clicky and firm, no slack really to speak of so I don't think it's had it - but I will do the test ICBM said to be sure.

Funkfingers

Bidley said:

the test ICBM said

Do that first.

Bidley

Just to clarify - there is signal from the pickup, it's just less than half the volume of the two pickups. If the pickup was dead, wouldn't it be silent?

Funkfingers

DiMarzio likes to express the output of its pickups in millivolts. The FRED is 305 and the HFH is 226. 

The ISCV2 is not listed on the DiMarzio website but an old DiMarzio forum post reckoned that the output was 160mV. i.e. Roughly half that of your FRED, making it very convenient for split coil mode. 

THINKS: What value pots have you used for the volume and tone controls? Does your circuit still include a tone control?

ICBM

Bidley said:

Just to clarify - there is signal from the pickup, it's just less than half the volume of the two pickups. If the pickup was dead, wouldn't it be silent?

Not necessarily. If the break in the coil is at the ground end, you tend to get enough capacitive coupling to make the pickup 'work' a bit, although the output is thin and weak. The usual giveaways are that when combined with another pickup you only hear the other pickup (hard to tell in this case if the humbuckers are being split as well) and that when the pickup is selected on its own, turning the tone control down to zero kills almost all the remaining output.

So if your middle switch setting is the middle pickup alone, you could try the tone control first, before taking the wiring apart.

Bidley

So I'm probably being daft and it's working as intended then. I've got 500k pots, one volume, one tone.

ICBM

Bidley said:

So I'm probably being daft and it's working as intended then. I've got 500k pots, one volume, one tone.

To be honest - and oddly, since on a standard Strat the middle pickup is my favourite - I don't really like the middle position being the middle pickup alone on a HSH. It's much more useful to either have both humbuckers, or both split humbuckers. You need one of the Megaswitch models to get these combinations though, it can't be done with a normal 5-way switch.

Dave_Mc

ICBM said:

Bidley said:

So I'm probably being daft and it's working as intended then. I've got 500k pots, one volume, one tone.

To be honest - and oddly, since on a standard Strat the middle pickup is my favourite - I don't really like the middle position being the middle pickup alone on a HSH. It's much more useful to either have both humbuckers, or both split humbuckers. You need one of the Megaswitch models to get these combinations though, it can't be done with a normal 5-way switch.

LOL I'm the other way round- middle pickup alone is a bit "boring", for want of a better word, for me on an SSS Strat, but on an HSH I find it a lot more useful as it's the only "true" single coil tone available. (I do like having both humbuckers, or both split humbuckers too, though... I'd just use a push-push for that, or a Freeway switch.)

Funkfingers

ICBM said:

on a standard Strat, the middle pickup is my favourite.

Dave_Mc said:

I'm the other way round - middle pickup alone is a bit "boring", for want of a better word, for me on an SSS Strat

I find that the usefulness of the middle position single coil pickup varies from guitar to guitar. On some guitars, it is lively and distinctive. (THINK: SRV.) On others, it is only any use for creating the 2 and 4 position sounds.

The latter instance is where ICBM's alternative wiring suggestion comes in handy. Neck + bridge pickup might well make a more interesting and usable sound than an insipid, centrally placed single coil. 

•

One of the reasons why I recently backed out of selling my old Ibanez RG200 is the three superb sonic contributions of its middle pickup - a pre-owned Seymour Duncan SSL-2. It even turned out to be RP/RW in relation to my other two SD pickups. 

Dave_Mc

^ Yeah, that might well be so. I can't tell if I like it in HSH because it actually sounds better in those guitars for the reasons you said, or just because it's still the best-sounding single coil sound in those guitars, mainly due to there being no competition from any other single coils in a better location!  

ICBM

Dave_Mc said:

^ Yeah, that might well be so. I can't tell if I like it in HSH because it actually sounds better in those guitars for the reasons you said, or just because it's still the best-sounding single coil sound in those guitars, mainly due to there being no competition from any other single coils in a better location!  

I think it might be that - the reason I like the middle pickup best on a SSS Strat is because it's actually the fullest-sounding and closest to a humbucker sound in some ways. But on a HSH, you have two real humbuckers so it's not necessary, and I find it a bit insipid - I prefer both humbuckers together, and second choice both split humbuckers.

My other controversial opinion is that I prefer the in-between sounds on a HSH - whether split or not - to a SSS Strat. The reason there is quite simple... you get maximum 'quack' (which I hate!) when the pickups are most closely matched. I quite like a flavour of that hollow sound, but it's much less pronounced when the pickups are mismatched.

Dave_Mc

ICBM said:

Dave_Mc said:

^ Yeah, that might well be so. I can't tell if I like it in HSH because it actually sounds better in those guitars for the reasons you said, or just because it's still the best-sounding single coil sound in those guitars, mainly due to there being no competition from any other single coils in a better location!  

(a) I think it might be that - the reason I like the middle pickup best on a SSS Strat is because it's actually the fullest-sounding and closest to a humbucker sound in some ways. But on a HSH, you have two real humbuckers so it's not necessary, and I find it a bit insipid - I prefer both humbuckers together, and second choice both split humbuckers.

(b) My other controversial opinion is that I prefer the in-between sounds on a HSH - whether split or not - to a SSS Strat. The reason there is quite simple... you get maximum 'quack' (which I hate!) when the pickups are most closely matched. I quite like a flavour of that hollow sound, but it's much less pronounced when the pickups are mismatched.

(a) Yeah that makes sense. I just don't get the bite I want out of the middle pickup alone. The middle is a bit like the Tele neck pickup... I do think it's massively underrated by a lot of players, but at the same time, I don't use it all that much, lol.

(b) LOL I used to prefer them on HSH too, because my first guitar was HSH. I'm more used to Strats now so I've sort of changed my mind, but I know what you mean.

I also (possibly) changed my mind on the in-between sounds on an HSH (or HSS)- I used to much prefer them auto-split, but now I'm not so sure.

I'm just ridiculously indecisive, lol.