Tips on mastering, should I do it myself (if so, how?) or get someone else to do it?

Jonathanthomas83

So in the space of a few months, I've managed to learn how to mix and got something I'm quite happy with. I was all set to sent this to some randomer to master but am now thinking that I may be happier doing it myself so as to not ruin what I'm happy with. I've got a clear vision of what I want it to sound like and I've achieved that with my mix.

That said, I don't have the ability to objectively hear the music in a better room, so I have a feeling that it might be better served going to a professional to get the mastering done.

Then there's stuff like this...https://www.plugin-alliance.com/en/products/bx_masterdesk.html Which makes me think I can save myself a lot of money and have the ability and fun learning to do it myself.

What say you internet wise ones?

cc'ing @WiresDreamDisasters

spark240

I say for around £30 per track Id get it mastered by a Pro..

Jonathanthomas83

spark240 said:

I say for around £30 per track Id get it mastered by a Pro..

Thanks, mate, any advice on where to go for mastering services?

Cirrus

If you mixed it, what would you change in mastering that you wouldn't have already adjusted to taste in the mix?

Jonathanthomas83

Cirrus said:

If you mixed it, what would you change in mastering that you wouldn't have already adjusted to taste in the mix?

Exactly, that's definitely what I'm thinking. If I'm honest, very little other than being safe in the knowledge that its even across the spectrum for playback on a wide variety of devices and formats/services.

Only thing it needs, from my perspective is volume to bring it up to the modern standards, which I have no idea about...yet.

But again, that's just my view and a few mates who have listened to it and liked it. I need some objectivity.

PolarityMan

Buying mastering at £30 a track isn't going to give you the kind of feedback loop that you hear talked about by pro artists imo. They'll prob just chuck an izotope preset on it and call it a day. You'd probably be better placed getting mix feedback instead from some knowledgeable types.

What they probably can do is make it louder and/or fit with the required technical specifications for different streaming services but you could probably achieve that yourself with master bus processing if you put some time in. 

PolarityMan

Wow i used the word probably a lot in that post

octatonic

PolarityMan said:

Buying mastering at £30 a track isn't going to give you the kind of feedback loop that you hear talked about by pro artists imo. They'll prob just chuck an izotope preset on it and call it a day. You'd probably be better placed getting mix feedback instead from some knowledgeable types.

What they probably can do is make it louder and/or fit with the required technical specifications for different streaming services but you could probably achieve that yourself with master bus processing if you put some time in. 

Exactly.

You don't get professional mastering for £30 a track.
I don't master my own tracks because it is more than simply a technical exercise.
Different ears in a different room is a big part of it.

I use Metropolis, they are excellent.

Rowby1

PolarityMan said:

Buying mastering at £30 a track isn't going to give you the kind of feedback loop that you hear talked about by pro artists imo. They'll prob just chuck an izotope preset on it and call it a day. You'd probably be better placed getting mix feedback instead from some knowledgeable types.

What they probably can do is make it louder and/or fit with the required technical specifications for different streaming services but you could probably achieve that yourself with master bus processing if you put some time in. 

This 100%

Real pro mastering isn’t what you get for £30

I was very lucky to be put in touch with a pro mastering engineer when I started mixing 10 years ago. I told him I was inexperienced and would value his opinion on my mixes before I sent them to him to work on. He taught me a lot. His evaluation of my mixes helped me and made his job easier going forward. 

If you can find an engineer that is willing to help you improve in this way it’s worth a lot more than £30 a track cookie cutter mastering.

Jonathanthomas83

This is exactly the sort of advice I was after and to be honest, mirrors my own personal thoughts on it. I feel that I need someone to listen to this on a better system than mine and to let me know what needs to change at a mix level and then I can have a crack at my own mastering and maybe fork out for @octatonic's recommendation, Metropolis, and see how I must improve my mastering, for example. Thank you @PolarityMan, @octatonic and @Rowby1

So on that note, how do I find someone knowledgeable who can tolerate listening to my mix and help me identify potential issues with it?!!

thermionic

A few years ago me and a friend had a 7” single released on vinyl. Not surprisingly the (very small) label insisted on using their trusted mastering engineer for the vinyl masters but let us stick to our diy roots and I mastered the iTunes etc files myself. I followed an article in Sound on Sound and basically used multiband compression, eq, exciter, and limiter in Logic. The guy who did the vinyl masters thought my attempt was “pretty good”.

This was for some gritty lo-fi synthpop stuff though and if I had the chance to release stuff in future that was more “conventional” I would seek the services of a good professional (not send off a file to be done for £30).

Cirrus

Jonathanthomas83 said:

Cirrus said:

If you mixed it, what would you change in mastering that you wouldn't have already adjusted to taste in the mix?

Exactly, that's definitely what I'm thinking. If I'm honest, very little other than being safe in the knowledge that its even across the spectrum for playback on a wide variety of devices and formats/services.

Only thing it needs, from my perspective is volume to bring it up to the modern standards, which I have no idea about...yet.

But again, that's just my view and a few mates who have listened to it and liked it. I need some objectivity.

Even absolute volume is mostly something that's determined while mixing - a clear mix with no needless frequency clashes, big transients or lumpy low end can be made pretty loud without a limiter hurting the vibe of the mix. If it does have those things, a pro will get it loud with less damage than an amateur but it'll still be limited by the mix.

I know this from bitter hard won experience. 

That said, I do often master things myself because I can't justify the expense involved in going somewhere good - some of the jobs of mastering like ensuring a degree of consistency across a multi-track release and lining up the playlist with suitable transitions etc can be absolutely done by you, the only thing you can't do is notice the problems that are inherent in your system, style, methods, taste and hearing; eg if you love high end to a fault, you'll still love high end to a fault as you master it.

Stuckfast

Jonathanthomas83 said:

So on that note, how do I find someone knowledgeable who can tolerate listening to my mix and help me identify potential issues with it?!!

There are a few people on here who would be able to give it a good crack -- happy to do so if you like.

Jonathanthomas83

Stuckfast said:

Jonathanthomas83 said:

So on that note, how do I find someone knowledgeable who can tolerate listening to my mix and help me identify potential issues with it?!!

There are a few people on here who would be able to give it a good crack -- happy to do so if you like.

PM'd thank you very much!

spark240

Jonathanthomas83 said:

spark240 said:

I say for around £30 per track Id get it mastered by a Pro..

Thanks, mate, any advice on where to go for mastering services?

I use Pete Maher...hes quite user friendly, based aurora all done via Wetransfer.

https://www.petemaher.com

spark240

I had the Featherbed track masted by Pete Maher for £30...I recall you thought it was great ;-)

spark240

Rowby1 said:

PolarityMan said:

Buying mastering at £30 a track isn't going to give you the kind of feedback loop that you hear talked about by pro artists imo. They'll prob just chuck an izotope preset on it and call it a day. You'd probably be better placed getting mix feedback instead from some knowledgeable types.

What they probably can do is make it louder and/or fit with the required technical specifications for different streaming services but you could probably achieve that yourself with master bus processing if you put some time in. 

This 100%

Real pro mastering isn’t what you get for £30

I was very lucky to be put in touch with a pro mastering engineer when I started mixing 10 years ago. I told him I was inexperienced and would value his opinion on my mixes before I sent them to him to work on. He taught me a lot. His evaluation of my mixes helped me and made his job easier going forward. 

If you can find an engineer that is willing to help you improve in this way it’s worth a lot more than £30 a track cookie cutter mastering.

Ill say it again....check out Petes website and tell me he's no good?

Or maybe hes just having me on ?

Jonathanthomas83

spark240 said:

Jonathanthomas83 said:

spark240 said:

I say for around £30 per track Id get it mastered by a Pro..

Thanks, mate, any advice on where to go for mastering services?

I use Pete Maher...hes quite user friendly, based aurora all done via Wetransfer.

https://www.petemaher.com

Amazing, thank you, @spark240, very much appreciated. I'll get in touch with him

spark240

Jonathanthomas83 said:

spark240 said:

Jonathanthomas83 said:

spark240 said:

I say for around £30 per track Id get it mastered by a Pro..

Thanks, mate, any advice on where to go for mastering services?

I use Pete Maher...hes quite user friendly, based aurora all done via Wetransfer.

https://www.petemaher.com

Amazing, thank you, @spark240, very much appreciated. I'll get in touch with him

That should have read “ based abroad “ !

Cirrus

RIght, so... I think Pete's great, he's a nice guy too. I've used him a couple of times.

It's a different level of service from, say, Fluid Mastering, who I've also used a couple of times though they're 2x to 3x the price.

Pete definitely has a starting point - he works fast, and he'll use his years of experience and the fact he knows the norms of a genre inside and out to get your music to a particular placeplace. It's all remote, web based, and he'll do a revision if you're not happy.

Fluid Mastering is quite different - they prefer an attended session (this is all pre-covid of course), so you're there in the room. You get asked if there are any particular issues you struggled with during the mixing, or any particular sonic things you want to achieve from the mastering. You get to hear your mix for the first time in a room where the acoustic design alone cost more than you might spend on audio gear in your life, and maybe that gives you some perspective of your own - I know I learned more about how shit I was at mixing in 10 minutes of humbly sitting in that room than any other point in my life!


And if you're a great mixer, they might do basically nothing, and you walk out having spent a load of money still feeling good. If you have opinions, you might say "I don't mind less limiting or "I want the bass to be deliberately overblown here for an artistic reason" and they take that on board. If you're not a great mixer, you'll do what I did and sit just watching a master at work - maybe see them try a compressor then turn it off because it's not helping the next track, or hone in on a boxy acoustic guitar resonance you didn't even know existed....


They're different price points, and they're just totally different experiences, and they're both great.

spark240

@Cirrus agreed totally…my requirements were during lockdown, so going somewhere was out…a recommended remote service worked for me and I’m happy with the result.

I think the expectation from any mastering service can be somewhat greater than it actually is…I mean if you can’t hear the issues with your own mix, then how  will you know if the master is any better ?

For the amateur I think mastering is more to make your track a bit more radio friendly, I hears so many songs where folks have said “ I mixed and mastered it myself”…and they just don’t cut it cause frankly they aren’t very good at doing  either.

would I spend say £150 on mastering for one track….well no ….but that said I would like to have the experience of being there .