Drive sound at low volume - is it possible?

nonesuch

On the Sparkle Drive turn the 'Gain' up, and turn the 'Level' down (a lot). Does the level turn the volume to zero? Then it's got to work surely, I honestly can't see why it wouldn't.

I wouldn't use the boost pedal at all, that's obviously creating too much of a volume jump.

nonesuch

I know everyone's saying that all level controls are the same, but maybe the Sparkle Drive is a bit like my TateFX Antares, where the level doesn't always reduce the output to zero, depending on how the clean blend is set. The level only goes down to nothing if the 'Clean' blend is on full (i.e. no clean signal). Otherwise some signal still comes through.

Although I haven't used a Sparkle Drive, I'd suggest turning the 'Clean' control all the way down to see if that enables you to turn the level right down as well.

(Confusingly it seems that the Antares clean blend works in the opposite way to the Sparkle Drive, but that shouldn't matter.)

LastMantra

Rocker said:

LastMantra said:

When you say it's too loud, is that with the volume turned down? 

My electric guitar volume is more or less the same as the acoustic guitars.  Close enough that I can hear the acoustic guitars.  The boost pedal ups the guitar volume to make the intros, lead breaks etc. stand out.  The SparkleDrive has the same effect as the boost pedal, it boosts the guitar volume.  I had hoped that the SparkleDrive would give me a more driven sound but so far, no joy on that front.

Even with the volume (on the pedal) turned down?

Or is it that you want the amp to distort as well as the pedal? 

If the clean amp is where you want it just swith on the pedal and adjust the gain to the amount of distortion you want then adjust the volume to set how loud it is. It should go from nothing at all - too loud. Somewhere in that sweep must be right.

Rocker

My amp is set to give a bright clean sound.  I don't mind if the distortion is generated by the SparkleDrive or the amp itself, but a distorted sound for those rare occasions it is needed, is what I am trying to achieve.

The boost pedal is used to give a louder sound, mainly for 'ballad group' style intros.  It only distorts very slightly.  It is 'off' when the intro is ended.  I do not use the boost and the SD together, that would be way too loud in our music room ( which is/was a bedroom before I dedicated it for music).

poopot

Hokay…
 having spent time recording an acoustic, recording a DI against that acoustic, reamping the DI and playing the acoustic live against the DI, filming it, editing the film and uploading to YouTube just to illustrate that it is possible to get a drive sound at low volume with a Tubescreamer type pedal (which is what the sparkle drive is) this is the last time I’m going to say this….

TURN THE VOLUME DOWN ON THE SPARKLE DRIVE!!!!!!

as mentioned above, by myself and practically everyone who has commented…

turn the volume all the way down.
turn the clean blend all the way down
turn the gain UP

then…

adjust the VOLUME on the pedal to match that of your clean amp….

it is not a difficult thing to do… infact, when the 7 year old gets home from school I’ll do another video with him setting the levels on my rig in the studio if you like…

However, at this point I suspect you are just trolling everyone…

Cirrus

Yeah this thread is yet another masterclass in winding up people who are trying to help, unless the sparkledrive is actually broken somehow and he doesn't have enough experience with pedals to know.

slacker

Cirrus said:

Yeah this thread is yet another masterclass in winding up people who are trying to help, unless the sparkledrive is actually broken somehow and he doesn't have enough experience with pedals to know.

Wisdom given. I've just looked for the native amp sound thread trolling pedals and guess who started it?

poopot

@Rocker last one!… it’s this simple:

https://youtu.be/vnzBjE0CT9I

Stratavarious

Yep... all my home brew amps have a VVR circuit.  This lets me wind down the output tube voltages... full pre and output drive at any volume.  

BillDL

@Rocker ; I'm not sure if you are aware, but a "power soak" box is just a rotary attenuator and usually also some resistors.  An attenuator is something like a dimmer switch for lights, but it is specifically designed so that the impedance seen by the amplifier connected to it will always be 4, 8, or 16 Ohms.  There is usually a rotary selector or switch to choose the impedance and that selects what resistors the signal will be channelled through to provide the chosen impedance.  In a power soak box there will sometimes also be a fan, because attenuating (cutting) the output signal creates heat.  People who make their own power soak boxes sometimes also add in capacitors and resistors as you would find with "treble bleed" modifications in electric guitars to counter the effect of treble loss as you turn down the volume pot.

I have just fitted an 8 Ohm rotary attenuator inside my little "Tweed" styled valve amp and, at the same time, installed an external speaker socket that directs the unattenuated signal out and mutes the internal speaker.  They sit between the wires that come from the amp and would have gone directly to the internal speaker, and the attenuator's output then goes to the speaker.  This allows me to wind the amp up full but cut the output to an acceptable level for the house when I need, but I can just leave the attenuator wide open if I am somewhere I can make a lot of noise.

Any electrical device that is in a circuit will affect the original signal in some way, and you obviously don't get the gutsy effect of the speaker working hard, but my modification hasn't degraded the sound of the amp much even when I have it very attenuated.

The Peavey Windsor Studio 1 x12 valve amp has a built-in speaker attenuator that sits in a cage screwed up onto the chassis.  It really doesn't affect the sound of the amp in a measurable way.  It is the same kind of Monacor brand rotary attenuator I bought and fitted to my small "tweed" amp and it is freely available from places like RS Components, CPC Farnell, and other electrical components suppliers.  That's where I took the idea from, but instead of a cage to mount it I just sawed a rectangle out the side of my small amp and fitted a recessed dish designed for jack sockets on speaker cabinets.  I mounted my external speaker socket and the attenuator with chicken head knob to this metal dish.

I have a feeling you probably wouldn't want to start drilling into or chopping bits out of your amp, but I could give you more details and links to resources if you were interested.

@fastonebaz has given a good viable alternative, i.e. placing a volume pedal in the effects loop to act as a master volume.

Rocker

Thanks to @poopot, @BillDL and everyone else who contributed to this thread.

I have explained my problem and clarified on my reasons for needing a driven sound.  The room is our family music room and it is mainly used to listen to music through our hi-fi system.  My guitar kit is only setup when it is needed so it will be next week before I can try out the suggestions of @ICBM and @poopot. For practice and learning guitar I use my Pignose amp [and a Blackstar Fly Bass for bass] in our study [where the PC and another stereo system is in residence].

@slacker, I am not trolling or trying to upset members.  I actually prefer the sound of a guitar plugged straight into an amp but the sounds I want are not always possible without the use of pedals.  @BillDL I have no problem with modding my amp but the clean sound is so close to what I want that any power soak devices might give me the driven sound I want, but lose the sparkling cleans that I get right now.  There is no FX loop on my amp, no doubt one could be added, and the use of a volume pedal as @fastonbaz suggested would probably work.  But firstly, I will try the suggestions of ICBM and poopot.

BillDL

@Rocker ; I agree.  A speaker attenuator might very easily lose just enough treble from the signal as to change the "sparkling cleans", even with the capacitor/resistor "treble bleed" addition to mitigate loss of high end frequencies.  The reason I haven't really noticed any meaningful or significant degradation in my amp sounds is most likely because I rarely have them set on absolutely clean at house volumes.  I always have them on the edge of breakup or more driven.

slacker

Rocker said:

@slacker, I am not trolling or trying to upset members.  I actually prefer the sound of a guitar plugged straight into an amp but the sounds I want are not always possible without the use of pedals.  @BillDL I have no problem with modding my amp but the clean sound is so close to what I want that any power soak devices might give me the driven sound I want, but lose the sparkling cleans that I get right now.  There is no FX loop on my amp, no doubt one could be added, and the use of a volume pedal as @fastonbaz suggested would probably work.  But firstly, I will try the suggestions of ICBM and poopot.

Ok taking you at your word. Take your amp and guitar to a shop that has a decent selection of drive pedals. Pre book it by phone and warn them you are trying everything, bribe them with biscuits if need be. Go on a weekday and explain you are looking for an amp in a box overdrive or distortion. Do not try any form of tubescreamer or Klone.

Look at the j Rockett Dude, the Friedman BE, Bogner red blue and gold, any king of tone klone and make sure you try a rat and big muff or muffalike tm. 

Lastly you will never get an exact drive tone you want without using two amps and an attenuator. A drive pedal is a compromise and using a drive pedal at low volume does not give you power amp or speaker distortion. 

My home setup is what I rehearse with but my amp has power scaling. It doesn't sound as good but it works. Look for something that works for you.

ICBM

slacker said:

Lastly you will never get an exact drive tone you want without using two amps and an attenuator. A drive pedal is a compromise and using a drive pedal at low volume does not give you power amp or speaker distortion.

It’s true that you won’t get power amp distortion, but so what? The overdrive sound I get with a couple of specific pedals into a clean amp is better than anything I’ve ever had with a cranked amp and any sort of attenuation.

I do use attenuation as well, but as a form of final master volume control to reduce noise and improve the clean tone and the amp’s *preamp* distortion, not to crank the power stage into overdrive.

Actual speaker distortion sounds terrible too. What’s often described as speaker distortion is really just compression.

slacker

ICBM said:

slacker said:

Lastly you will never get an exact drive tone you want without using two amps and an attenuator. A drive pedal is a compromise and using a drive pedal at low volume does not give you power amp or speaker distortion.

It’s true that you won’t get power amp distortion, but so what? The overdrive sound I get with a couple of specific pedals into a clean amp is better than anything I’ve ever had with a cranked amp and any sort of attenuation.

I do use attenuation as well, but as a form of final master volume control to reduce noise and improve the clean tone and the amp’s *preamp* distortion, not to crank the power stage into overdrive.

Actual speaker distortion sounds terrible too. What’s often described as speaker distortion is really just compression.

I've never had a problem with but the op has. I have a zvex nano that sounds glorious over driven but too loud for home use at that volume. I use it a 9 o clock on the non master volume with a pedal.

It's a compromise.

Rocker

Well, I finally got round to giving the advice of @ICBM and @poopot and others a try.  A surprising discovery was that the settings on the SparkleDrive pedal, when I last tried to get the sound I want, were pretty close to the settings suggested in this thread.

No matter what settings I tried, I could not get the driven sound at all.  Some distortion, yes, volume boost, yes, but that was as good as it got.  It may be my amp, a SE valve amp, there might be a problem with my SD but at room volume levels [where a singer can be heard without amplification], the flowing 'liquid sounding' drive is not possible to achieve.  Not on my rig anyway.

So thanks to all for your contributions, some sounds remain elusive.  Getting the desired sound is not a life or death issue, it would be great if achieved but not at the expense of the 'normal' guitar sound that I get by default.

Cirrus

You've got the wrong pedal then, if its overdriven sound isn't working for you. Luckily there are thousands of options.

Bellycaster

Without reading through the whole thing again. What is the song with the tone you want to emulate?

Rocker

Bellycaster said:

Without reading through the whole thing again. What is the song with the tone you want to emulate?

The 'Air that I breathe' by The Hollies.  The driven lead guitar sound.

stratman3142

Rocker said:

..the flowing 'liquid sounding' drive...

Have you tried adding a phase effect, It sounds like there's a subtle time based modulation as well as the drive and reverb on the intro to "Air that I breathe".