Soundmen...Ugh

BintyTwanger77

We have our own soundman and he has thankfully not missed a gig: not just because he know what he's doing, but he's usually my lift back as well . The issues we've had have normally been with setting up the monitors in certain venues where the space means that the monitors can't be set loud enough without starting to feed back. With saxophone, you NEED to pitch with your ears and hear yourself on the monitors clearly for a gig, and without it your tuning can be off very easily. However, 95% of time this isn't a problem with the venues we play these days.

shufflebeat

BintyTwanger77 said:

With saxophone, you NEED to pitch with your ears and hear yourself on the monitors clearly for a gig, and without it your tuning can be off very easily. However, 95% of time this isn't a problem with the venues we play these days.

If you haven't done so already I'd suggest trying out some IEM solutions. It doesn't have to be expensive to experiment with wired options before going wireless, if you feel the need.

Singers have a little bit of bone-conducted energy to work with that, in my limited experience, sax players don't.

The fact that you have a regular sound-tech means you can have an ongoing informed discussion on how to make it work and s/he can take care of the practicalities while you get on with the job.

Ideal scenario. 

Vibetronic

Most of the ones I've had have been fine. The worst one we ever had was at a well-known venue...the sound was great, but he was in a filthy mood and abused the headliners for not speaking English, which was not their native tongue (it was amongst themselves too which made it even worse as it wasn't even at him). He also got arsey with the opening act, who is pretty well-known himself and was doing a solo show at the time - and also a guy you wouldn't mess with. He completely tore him (the soundman) to shreds in a very polite way and he didn't say another word afterwards. It was very funny but also very, very awkward.

Open_G

Have rarely played venues to have inhouse PA or sound run from the back of the room, on the odd occasions this has happened its always been more hassle than the old tried and tested method of one member of the band heading out front and waving their arms around to someone playing one handed while adjusting sliders and knobs on stage

JayGee

House sound men are like house PA, house backline, and house drum kits.

Which is to say one more thing which can make or break your gig, you get no choice or control over, and just have to hope for the best with. Mostly it’s pretty much OK, sometimes it’s dreadful, and occasionally it’s an absolute delight but worrying about it is like worrying about the weather, you’re stuck with it and might as well just work with what you get as best you can…

ICBM

JayGee said:

House sound men are like house PA, house backline, and house drum kits.

Which is to say one more thing which can make or break your gig, you get no choice or control over, and just have to hope for the best with. Mostly it’s pretty much OK, sometimes it’s dreadful, and occasionally it’s an absolute delight but worrying about it is like worrying about the weather, you’re stuck with it and might as well just work with what you get as best you can…

This. And take gear which enables you to get closer to your sound if they’re making it difficult - something as basic as an EQ pedal or an extra overdrive can make it easier to get what you want at the volume you have to, even if it’s not your ‘perfect’ sound. It’s better to compromise and hope for the best, than have a confrontation and guarantee the worst.

FarleyUK

I actually hired the sound engineer who's the house engineer at a venue we play at, and he came along to our gig last week. We use our own digital mixer (Mackie DL806), and it always fell to me to try and sort the levels out.

I have to say, he did an awesome job; fully EQ'd the inputs, sorted out all the issues I had with it, and was fantastic.

So thankfully, my experience of sound engineers has so far been excellent!

DannyP

My heart sinks when I see an iPad.

You know he's going to have his nose buried in it, you won't be able to signal him, and once the lights go down, you probably won't know where the c*nt actually IS half the time.

And stuff will go wrong with unmuting etc.

digitalscream

There is, of course, the opposite problem - sound guys who wreck everything because of a "louder's better, innit?" approach.

There's a local venue where the sound was always excellent, because of a great balance between volume and clarity. Nowadays, it's bloody awful because the house engineer a) doesn't know how to turn things down, and b) won't let anybody else's engineer touch his desk.

mike257

digitalscream said:

There is, of course, the opposite problem - sound guys who wreck everything because of a "louder's better, innit?" approach.

There's a local venue where the sound was always excellent, because of a great balance between volume and clarity. Nowadays, it's bloody awful because the house engineer a) doesn't know how to turn things down, and b) won't let anybody else's engineer touch his desk.

Is this really a thing?  I've heard talk of it but I've yet to come across a venue where the house engineer won't let the touring engineer on the console.  Have to have some serious superiority issues to try that on!

RocknRollDave

FWIW, as a self-contained wedding band effort, I have to set up and man my own desk and monitoring whilst also playing guitar and singing.
As you can imagine, it is a less than ideal scenario and I dread to think what some of my gigs have sounded like when we haven't had chance to do a proper soundcheck*.

*or as much as you CAN when you can't be FOH AND on-stage at the same time. 

TL:DR version: I'd flipping LOVE to work with a soundman more often. 

Cirrus

mike257 said:

digitalscream said:

There is, of course, the opposite problem - sound guys who wreck everything because of a "louder's better, innit?" approach.

There's a local venue where the sound was always excellent, because of a great balance between volume and clarity. Nowadays, it's bloody awful because the house engineer a) doesn't know how to turn things down, and b) won't let anybody else's engineer touch his desk.

Is this really a thing?  I've heard talk of it but I've yet to come across a venue where the house engineer won't let the touring engineer on the console.  Have to have some serious superiority issues to try that on!

Yes, at the MFN Arena near Nottingham. House sound guy point blank refused to let our engineer touch the desk.

rsvmark

So last night I played and have nothing but praise for the house sound fella. He came straight out with this……1. What’s your set up and how would you like it out front? 2. What do you want in your monitor? If it’s not right, wave at me, I will wave back, point at the band member and signal up or down.

He was genuinely enthusiastic about mic’ing my wet/dry set up. Said he enjoyed our show and my sound, and actually (as we are going back in April supporting a big name act), he has made notes on his phone and is going to try a new set up next time- 2 mics on the wet and put hard left and hard right, then 1 mic dry down the middle. 

Nice to work with an enthusiastic bloke and proper pro

TheBigDipper

rsvmark said:

So last night I played and have nothing but praise for the house sound fella. He came straight out with this……1. What’s your set up and how would you like it out front? 2. What do you want in your monitor? If it’s not right, wave at me, I will wave back, point at the band member and signal up or down.

He was genuinely enthusiastic about mic’ing my wet/dry set up. Said he enjoyed our show and my sound, and actually (as we are going back in April supporting a big name act), he has made notes on his phone and is going to try a new set up next time- 2 mics on the wet and put hard left and hard right, then 1 mic dry down the middle. 

Nice to work with an enthusiastic bloke and proper pro

And I bet you played better knowing he had your back, too. 

shufflebeat

DannyP said:

My heart sinks when I see an iPad.

You know he's going to have his nose buried in it, you won't be able to signal him, and once the lights go down, you probably won't know where the c*nt actually IS half the time.

And stuff will go wrong with unmuting etc.

That's someone who hasn't really come to terms with the tech. I make sure people know where I will be, either stage-side or at a designated spot in the room and make a point of scanning band members for gestures and body language.

Mute problems are not digi-specific.

Hootsmon

Soundman my arse...I've been to pro gigs that had a soundman with shit eating grin sitting at million pound desk and the most awful sound you heard in your life....soundman my arse

mike257

Hootsmon said:

Soundman my arse...I've been to pro gigs that had a soundman with shit eating grin sitting at million pound desk and the most awful sound you heard in your life....soundman my arse

I resent that comment. 



The most expensive desk I've made a gig sound terrible on was only worth £150,000.

koneguitarist

Getting sound right is a two way thing, not just engineer but band as well. I was doing sound for about 6 bands at a fairly big venue locally, where I was getting problems with the bass on one of the bands. Till I realised if he knew the song he turned his bass up, and almost off when he didn’t. 

newi123

DannyP said:

My heart sinks when I see an iPad.

+1

Too many options, often too little understanding of less is more. If they know the system really well, then great, but often not the case. 

This extends to our own band too - I wish we`d get rid of the do it all ipad mixing system and go back to a simple desk with knobs to twiddle. 

RobDavies

One of the small venues local to me, uses students from the uni to man the desk.  They mean well, and they’re obviously still learning but are mainly clueless. 

When attending gigs there, I’ve been called over by the bands I know during to stand front and centre and give advice to the sound students as to what sounds good, and what doesn’t.  

I may not have the techy knowledge, but I do know what a gig should sound like.   I think I missed my calling in life, as I’d love to have done more of this stuff.