Do I need a sub?

grappagreen

Hi all,

Could do with some advice on this.

Covers band and we currently have our own PA with QSC 10 mains and three Alto monitors. We're currently running vocals, keys and acoustic guitar only through the PA. I'd like to get electric guitar and bass out via the PA as well and just use the guitar/bass amps for stage monitoring at a lower level.

Do I need a sub to be able to do this effectively? Could we go to 12" mains? Venues are pubs/clubs so fairly small.

Any insights appreciated.

Si

rich75

My band has recently started to put instruments through the PA. We've gone from just vocals to also having guitars, bass, keys and bass drum going through it.

We don't use a sub and the main speakers are two Yamaha DXR12s. we have now done three gigs like that and it sounds great. For our purposes (playing pubs and similar small venues) we haven't felt that we're lacking anything by not having a sub. 

At our most recent gig on Saturday (at a pub we have played at a lot over the years) the landlord said it was the best we had ever sounded and that it sounded really clear and well balanced.

We were also able to run the amps on stage at a lower level so everything just became more manageable.

Other people's experiences may vary but I don't feel that a sub is essential in smaller venues. I do think that 12s rather than 10s for the mains would probably make sense though.

maltingsaudio

A sub would fill out the sound for the keyboards and acoustic  and if your going to include a bass in there definitely . I would suggest hiring one befor you buy just to get an idea

viz

We got a sub for our covers band, well, two subs, and it was bloody awesome. Outs had holes in the top so I got a curtain pole and cut a couple of short lengths - like a foot long - to put the tops on. Then we could put the whole thing up on the stage with us. Fantastic. Meant we could play louder without it being shrill. 

markslade07

We’re currently contemplating this at the minute too. We’re got a large indoor gig coming up next month so we (I) want us to put kick and snare, plus bass through the PA and I worry that just the 12” tops are going to struggle a bit. Probably going to end up hiring one from somewhere first (if companies would bother to reply) and see how we go

Roland

grappagreen said:

Do I need a sub to be able to do this effectively?

Yes, you do. If you want to put bass, or kick drum through a PA then you need a sub. You also need a crossover to keep the low frequencies out of those 10” tops. Some subs come with a built-in crossover

darius

We use a sub just for the kick drum. 

It is awesome. 

If we were ever to start running guitars through the PA, I would absolutely need the sub for the bass.

maltingsaudio

markslade07 said:

We’re currently contemplating this at the minute too. We’re got a large indoor gig coming up next month so we (I) want us to put kick and snare, plus bass through the PA and I worry that just the 12” tops are going to struggle a bit. Probably going to end up hiring one from somewhere first (if companies would bother to reply) and see how we go

Hi Mark, depending on how close you are to Shepton or fancy a drive can help you out with this

markslade07

maltingsaudio said:

markslade07 said:

We’re currently contemplating this at the minute too. We’re got a large indoor gig coming up next month so we (I) want us to put kick and snare, plus bass through the PA and I worry that just the 12” tops are going to struggle a bit. Probably going to end up hiring one from somewhere first (if companies would bother to reply) and see how we go

Hi Mark, depending on how close you are to Shepton or fancy a drive can help you out with this

Hey..I’m not too far away in Chippenham, so a fairly easy tootle for me. I’ll chat to the guys later and drop you a message…cheers @maltingsaudio ;

Gassage

Try Grindr

You can search on role.

firepaulmusic

Once you’ve had subs, you’ll never go back. 10’s are great, no need for 12’s, only my opinion based on personal experience...

roberty

Gassage said:

Try Grindr

You can search on role.

No cover band should be without

ICBM

Yes, if you want to put bass, keys or especially kick drum through the PA then a sub is always better. Anything with frequencies below 100Hz and particularly with ‘thump’ transients will sound much better and stress the top speakers much less.

I would definitely prefer 10 tops with a sub to 12s without, or even 15s without. You don’t really need two subs, but they make very good stands for the tops and it’s possibly worth having a backup even if you’re only running one.

grappagreen

Thanks all.

Looks like the consensus is 10's with subs so that's what it will be!

Si

ESBlonde

The amount of energy used to provide low frequencies is huge. Look at the driver size for the hf horn compared to the 10” driver and then magnify the again.
if you try to reproduce low frequency from the same cabinet at any volume the overall clarity will suffer and the vocals might well distort even though they have the same settings you currently use.
adding  a sub makes a huge difference, if your mixer is capable you should only assign those Chanel’s that require those frequencies, so piano, kick, bass. Nothing else needs to go there. Look up the aux fed subs practice if your mixer has a spare aux feed, the power and clarity will reward you well for just a couple of extra cables and some know how.

grappagreen

@ESBlonde ;

Thanks for the post - I was looking at a QSC video on using an aux to control the routing to the sub so will give that a go when I get one.

Si

firepaulmusic

Once you’ve had subs, you’ll never go back. 10’s are great, no need for 12’s, only my opinion based on personal experience...