Why do you think the forum has a retention issue?

Jetsam1

I don't post massive amounts. But I am an Intermusic Forum vintage person type. I like this forum. The way it is run and moderated is certainly done well.

I think that the Off Topic etc sections do help make it something a bit different as it is more of a free space and a community where you get the people you get on with and those you don't. And those you agree with and those you don't. But, the moderation style and the people involved who don't get banned give something different that you don't get elsewhere.

You see, I feel that a lot of things I don't agree with @WiresDreamDisasters but I still think I would be more than happy going for a beer with him I think. We are communicating over the internet in typed words and you have to remember people in real life can be (and probably are) very different. SO there.

This is a good place.

Heartfeltdawn

WiresDreamDisasters said:

Assuming it does, why do you think the forum struggles to retain people and/or bring new people along and grow? 

Because we have a UK-centric focus here and so we aren't going to get much international traffic.That's different to somewhere like KVR which is a real mix of nationalities and ages (a lot more young uns there than here). I just have to look at the folk I've bought and sold from on KVR to realise that. Not sure if we struggle to retain though. 

 Bonus question - why do you think the forum isn't seen to be as important to the world of guitar as somewhere like The Gear Page ?

Because the US-centric content of TGP going years back gives it a history and knowledge base we don't have and probably won't ever have. As wanky as the moderation is there, there's no doubting some of the quality of posting there. Statistically the effect pedal section has more posts and content than any other section at TGP despite the earliest post I can find coming four months later than the "Guitars in general section". 

GIG: 164.8k threads, 3.7m messages. 

Effect pedals: 210K threads, 4.5m messages

(by comparison, TFB FX: 14.6k threads, 231.8k messages). 


When you have people like Marc Skreddy, Paul Cochrane, Jack Orman, Mike Analogman, the late Nic Harris, there is some quality content. HCFX had that for a while until Harmony Central died. So there's a real quantity of good shit in TGP that you just can't get anywhere else now. 

soma1975

As an end-user there's nothing wrong with TFB or the number of contributors. 

Yorkie

I can’t see how TGP’s big names are more impressive than our pool of talent here. Questions don’t usually go unanswered? No matter how hard or technical. 

Jon

Heartfeltdawn

Yorkie said:

I can’t see how TGP’s big names are more impressive than our pool of talent here. Questions don’t usually go unanswered? No matter how hard or technical. 

Jon

I didn't say they were more impressive. In terms of depth of knowledge, TGP has been around longer and features more builders of various things than TFB. That isn't denigrating our builders, it's simply saying that TGP have more of them and they've been around longer. 

SPECTRUM001

A serious question - why does the forum have the whole ‘number of frets’ thing ?

When I joined I was clueless about it; wondering what it was. It’s actually fine, but I do wonder if it brings in a possible sense of elitism ?

Nothing wrong with applause, but not sure why that has to form a scoreboard ?? If it is to give a sense of trust, surely time served or number of posts would suffice ?

VimFuego

SPECTRUM001 said:

A serious question - why does the forum have the whole ‘number of frets’ thing ?

When I joined I was clueless about it; wondering what it was. It’s actually fine, but I do wonder if it brings in a possible sense of elitism ?

Nothing wrong with applause, but not sure why that has to form a scoreboard ?? If it is to give a sense of trust, surely time served or number of posts would suffice ?

IIRC it started as a way of preventing the lol, I agree, bellend, that's amazing type posts that were common on the old forums. However, they seem to have morphed a bit into something that kinda resembles cliqueism or a bit gatekeepery. It's like the frets signify how valued or important a poster is, and it feels a bit like someone new feel they will struggle to break into the forum, even if it's not true (someone could have 20k frets and still be a stinking great bellend).

WiresDreamDisasters

Aren't frets just part of the Vanilla eco-system? Frets is a name they've been given, but they're just a stock thing no??

Yorkie

Heartfeltdawn said:

Yorkie said:

I can’t see how TGP’s big names are more impressive than our pool of talent here. Questions don’t usually go unanswered? No matter how hard or technical. 

Jon

I didn't say they were more impressive. In terms of depth of knowledge, TGP has been around longer and features more builders of various things than TFB. That isn't denigrating our builders, it's simply saying that TGP have more of them and they've been around longer. 

I agree. The US is a much bigger country and TGP a much bigger forum. It’s only logical that they’ve got more threads, messages, and big names. I was just saying that I don’t think their builders are more impressive than ours; it was also an independent observation; I did not mean to imply you were denigrating them. 

Jon

TheBigDipper

tanihhiavlt said:

TheBigDipper said:

I didn't know there was a retention issue. 

Agreed. Well the title says "why do you think the forum has a retention issue?" - which I read as "what makes you think the forum has a retention issue?"
<snip>

For your interpretation, I'd have written that using the word "believe" instead of "think". If I ask why you "think" something, doesn't that mean you've already told me what you believe, but haven't yet explained why?

For a method of precise communication, English still has a way to go, I believe...  (Now ask me why I believe it and I'll refer you back to this post! :-) )

SPECTRUM001

VimFuego said:

SPECTRUM001 said:

A serious question - why does the forum have the whole ‘number of frets’ thing ?

When I joined I was clueless about it; wondering what it was. It’s actually fine, but I do wonder if it brings in a possible sense of elitism ?

Nothing wrong with applause, but not sure why that has to form a scoreboard ?? If it is to give a sense of trust, surely time served or number of posts would suffice ?

IIRC it started as a way of preventing the lol, I agree, bellend, that's amazing type posts that were common on the old forums. However, they seem to have morphed a bit into something that kinda resembles cliqueism or a bit gatekeepery. It's like the frets signify how valued or important a poster is, and it feels a bit like someone new feel they will struggle to break into the forum, even if it's not true (someone could have 20k frets and still be a stinking great bellend).

Thanks - that makes sense although I guess whether frets have morphed into anything cliquey is a matter of opinion.

But it would be possible to use the Lol ‘comment’ etc without it being an accumulative total (eg a post could accrue ten Wows which simply remain on the post).

That said, I don’t have any issue with the current system, but it is possible it could put some people off ?

poopot

Does the forum have a retention iss…

oh look a squirrel!!!

Yorkie

I like the frets thing. Every time someone gives me something it puts a smile on my face. 

Disclaimer: I am usually the weird one.

Jon

Rich210

In response to the main question, I think looking at the board as the problem isn't really the issue. Everyone one of us has our own life that intersects with time on the fretboard. Sure, people can get involved and fall out and perhaps in some cases never repair what ever the disagreement is. I know, I mean I noticed after some of those early CV19 debates I was blocked by people to the point where even if it was a discussion I created it was as if my comments did not exist even though I was directly responding to people. Although I did take heart in watching people that were abusive to me eventually get kicked out of the forum for being said idiots. 

This is a really great forum which is roundly friendly, accepting and open to lots of different debates. It's well administered and easy to use. I've found loads of help on ample issues I've had ranging from guitar related stuff to my diabetic cat (who is doing fantastic btw!). 

That experience did discourage me, but it's just an indirect consequence of an intervention designed to stop abuse but it is a bit telling when your discussions get hijacked by people that have ignored you - that is bad form. 

EricTheWeary

IIRC on musicradar you had your number of posts displayed by your name. They are available here but you have to go into someone’s details. I think it provided a bit of a marker as to wether someone was a regular -  also in some ways your only guide to someone’s likely reliability in a classifieds transaction. So the Frets give that kind of rough guide. 

The Frets also do cut down on the +1 type posts ( or the endless F posts you get in Facebook groups). For example, I just gave @poopot a LOL rather than clutter this with an entire post just for oh that made me laugh. 

We lost the Facepalm which was the most open to abuse and now, on some devices, you can see who has given the Frets so it’s less of a passive aggressive device. 

I’m mostly in favour of it. 

monquixote

WiresDreamDisasters said:

Aren't frets just part of the Vanilla eco-system? Frets is a name they've been given, but they're just a stock thing no??

It's a third party plugin.

Adding it seemed like a good idea at the time because I didn't like that post count is used on a lot of forums as a proxy for worth and gamification was all the rage for driving positive behaviour at that time.

I regret it now...

Open_G

monquixote said:

Adding it seemed like a good idea at the time because I didn't like that post count is used on a lot of forums as a proxy for worth and gamification was all the rage for driving positive behaviour at that time.

I regret it now...

I actually really like it... In so many forums I've dipped in and out of it seems that post count has been king, and the plethora of "non posts" that clog up the threads with +1, lol, etc. etc. are avoided here.

Snags

monquixote said:

WiresDreamDisasters said:

Aren't frets just part of the Vanilla eco-system? Frets is a name they've been given, but they're just a stock thing no??

It's a third party plugin.

Adding it seemed like a good idea at the time because I didn't like that post count is used on a lot of forums as a proxy for worth and gamification was all the rage for driving positive behaviour at that time.

I regret it now...

Tempting to wiz that just for the lolz

I think some kind of 'reactions' feature is useful, but probably in this day and age a variation on the Facebook style repsonses (but with one or two more added to allow more range/nuance) and detached from any overall counter or score is probably better. Although I do still find frets useful as one data point amongst many, rather than an absolute indication of "worth".

But for this consumer, this is still the only forum I come back to on a daily basis (usually multiple times a day), and on balance it seems to work pretty well and there are always new names popping up to post and hanging around, which can't be bad.

RocknRollDave

The Alec Baldwin thread says it all for me.
Way more pages than most of the threads about guitars/ music. Lots of one-upmanship, mansplaining and passive aggression. 
All perfectly valid means of self-expression, should you choose them in this word of free expression, but threads like that will surely look a certain way to outsiders coming to the FB for the first time.