What's the next 'big thing' in FX/Modellers?

digitalscream

maharg101 said:

Much smaller hardware units with a web interface. Literally just the patch selection on foot switches. Plug in expression pedals as required over USB (have as many as you want). Bank / song selection and configuration via a web interface, which could be on a laptop / tablet. Multi unit ability to enable simultaneous control of another unit in the FX loop of a real amp if so desired.

I've thought about that, quite extensively. The problem is...to do it over a web interface, you'd have to use wi-fi. That means several things...

1 - It would have to have its own wireless access point, unless you want punters mucking with your effects while you're playing.
2 - That means you'd have to turn your phone's Internet access off, or run it as an AP.
3 - Wireless access means you're at the mercy of frequency/channel congestion.
4 - In a unit that's big enough to have footswitches, there's plenty of room for a display and a few knobs anyway.
5 - The cost of implementing the necessary wireless gubbins (and supporting future wireless standards) will exceed the cost of a display.

One thing that could be useful is a modular system where you can effectively build it yourself. So you get a little box that has DSP only in it that can sit under your board (and will talk to other DSP boxes), an I/O box, a pedal box (or MIDI) etc etc. That way, it can expand as necessary, the cost of entry has been reduced significantly and it's relatively future-proof.

Personally, the one realistic thing I'd like to see is more units in a no-expression-pedal form factor.

monquixote

digitalscream said:

maharg101 said:

Much smaller hardware units with a web interface. Literally just the patch selection on foot switches. Plug in expression pedals as required over USB (have as many as you want). Bank / song selection and configuration via a web interface, which could be on a laptop / tablet. Multi unit ability to enable simultaneous control of another unit in the FX loop of a real amp if so desired.

I've thought about that, quite extensively. The problem is...to do it over a web interface, you'd have to use wi-fi. That means several things...

1 - It would have to have its own wireless access point, unless you want punters mucking with your effects while you're playing.
2 - That means you'd have to turn your phone's Internet access off, or run it as an AP.
3 - Wireless access means you're at the mercy of frequency/channel congestion.
4 - In a unit that's big enough to have footswitches, there's plenty of room for a display and a few knobs anyway.
5 - The cost of implementing the necessary wireless gubbins (and supporting future wireless standards) will exceed the cost of a display.

One thing that could be useful is a modular system where you can effectively build it yourself. So you get a little box that has DSP only in it that can sit under your board (and will talk to other DSP boxes), an I/O box, a pedal box (or MIDI) etc etc. That way, it can expand as necessary, the cost of entry has been reduced significantly and it's relatively future-proof.

Personally, the one realistic thing I'd like to see is more units in a no-expression-pedal form factor.

Indeed, for remote control of an FX unit Bluetooth seems the more appropriate tech.

digitalscream

monquixote said:

digitalscream said:

maharg101 said:

Much smaller hardware units with a web interface. Literally just the patch selection on foot switches. Plug in expression pedals as required over USB (have as many as you want). Bank / song selection and configuration via a web interface, which could be on a laptop / tablet. Multi unit ability to enable simultaneous control of another unit in the FX loop of a real amp if so desired.

I've thought about that, quite extensively. The problem is...to do it over a web interface, you'd have to use wi-fi. That means several things...

1 - It would have to have its own wireless access point, unless you want punters mucking with your effects while you're playing.
2 - That means you'd have to turn your phone's Internet access off, or run it as an AP.
3 - Wireless access means you're at the mercy of frequency/channel congestion.
4 - In a unit that's big enough to have footswitches, there's plenty of room for a display and a few knobs anyway.
5 - The cost of implementing the necessary wireless gubbins (and supporting future wireless standards) will exceed the cost of a display.

One thing that could be useful is a modular system where you can effectively build it yourself. So you get a little box that has DSP only in it that can sit under your board (and will talk to other DSP boxes), an I/O box, a pedal box (or MIDI) etc etc. That way, it can expand as necessary, the cost of entry has been reduced significantly and it's relatively future-proof.

Personally, the one realistic thing I'd like to see is more units in a no-expression-pedal form factor.

Indeed, for remote control of an FX unit Bluetooth seems the more appropriate tech.

On the face of it, yes. However, that means that the only method for using the unit would be reliant on the manufacturer's ongoing software support for new mobile operating systems.

The obvious solution is to implement a USB port to be configurable as a host, so wi-fi/Bluetooth/etc would be an optional added extra.

lysander

For me the future already exits : SpeakerMix Pro by Celestion, which does non linear cab simulation, is a huge improvement on the usual IR stuff. 

Shame it’s a bit buggy. But I really hope modellers start implementing similar tech.
I understand the UA Ox Box has something similar but I haven’t tested it.
As others have said, amp modelling is a solved problem, and IMO speaker sim is the remaining weak link in many cases.

monquixote

digitalscream said:

monquixote said:

digitalscream said:

maharg101 said:

Much smaller hardware units with a web interface. Literally just the patch selection on foot switches. Plug in expression pedals as required over USB (have as many as you want). Bank / song selection and configuration via a web interface, which could be on a laptop / tablet. Multi unit ability to enable simultaneous control of another unit in the FX loop of a real amp if so desired.

I've thought about that, quite extensively. The problem is...to do it over a web interface, you'd have to use wi-fi. That means several things...

1 - It would have to have its own wireless access point, unless you want punters mucking with your effects while you're playing.
2 - That means you'd have to turn your phone's Internet access off, or run it as an AP.
3 - Wireless access means you're at the mercy of frequency/channel congestion.
4 - In a unit that's big enough to have footswitches, there's plenty of room for a display and a few knobs anyway.
5 - The cost of implementing the necessary wireless gubbins (and supporting future wireless standards) will exceed the cost of a display.

One thing that could be useful is a modular system where you can effectively build it yourself. So you get a little box that has DSP only in it that can sit under your board (and will talk to other DSP boxes), an I/O box, a pedal box (or MIDI) etc etc. That way, it can expand as necessary, the cost of entry has been reduced significantly and it's relatively future-proof.

Personally, the one realistic thing I'd like to see is more units in a no-expression-pedal form factor.

Indeed, for remote control of an FX unit Bluetooth seems the more appropriate tech.

On the face of it, yes. However, that means that the only method for using the unit would be reliant on the manufacturer's ongoing software support for new mobile operating systems.

The obvious solution is to implement a USB port to be configurable as a host, so wi-fi/Bluetooth/etc would be an optional added extra.

I'm wondering if you could make an app as a PWA which would be fairly future proof. Assuming browser Bluetooth support is sufficient.

maharg101

I'll just say that ethernet, even if it requires adapters, is still a thing. But yeah. A USB-C host is probably the sweet spot at the moment..

AntonHunter

Danny1969 said:

I would like split processing but that needs a new guitar pickup too and a 3 conductor cable. Basically I want to be able to play with one patch on the bottom 2 strings and one patch on the other 4. I was playing around with a guitar synth last night which could kind of do this, opens up a lot of options when using the guitar as a solo instrument. 

Check out Submarine pickups as a way of doing this. 

Jonathanthomas83

lysander said:

For me the future already exits : SpeakerMix Pro by Celestion, which does non linear cab simulation, is a huge improvement on the usual IR stuff. 

Shame it’s a bit buggy. But I really hope modellers start implementing similar tech.
I understand the UA Ox Box has something similar but I haven’t tested it.
As others have said, amp modelling is a solved problem, and IMO speaker sim is the remaining weak link in many cases.

In what way is it an improvement, please?

paganskins

AntonHunter said:

Danny1969 said:

I would like split processing but that needs a new guitar pickup too and a 3 conductor cable. Basically I want to be able to play with one patch on the bottom 2 strings and one patch on the other 4. I was playing around with a guitar synth last night which could kind of do this, opens up a lot of options when using the guitar as a solo instrument. 

Check out Submarine pickups as a way of doing this. 

Also the Roland/boss with guitar modeling units like the SY1000 and GP10 can do this via GK pickup and accompanying cable.

Lewy

AntonHunter said:

Danny1969 said:

I would like split processing but that needs a new guitar pickup too and a 3 conductor cable. Basically I want to be able to play with one patch on the bottom 2 strings and one patch on the other 4. I was playing around with a guitar synth last night which could kind of do this, opens up a lot of options when using the guitar as a solo instrument. 

Check out Submarine pickups as a way of doing this. 

It would be awesome if someone could do this in a box with filtering etc as opposed to faffing around with additional pickups, trailing leads etc. It would need to be pitch rather than string triggered though, in the same way that an OC-3 can just apply it's effect to notes below a certain pitch. I've played around with this a lot and the closest I've come it the KMA Tyler which is frequency based - basically a box with two sides - a High Pass and a Low Pass, each which their own FX loop - it's not perfect obviously but can get you somewhere in that ballpark.

sjo89

I think whats exciting is that all the current modellers have room for expansion and improvement. More power. More routing options. Inbuilt power amps etc.

It'll probably never happen, but some sort of software/app based pedal, whereby you can download and install fx made by different companies would be amazing. Kinda like what you can do with VST's and plugins on DAWs right now. Imagine being to download a strymon reverb plugin with a Origin Effects compressor plugin and a UA audio delay plugin whilst using an officially licensed Marshall amp modeller plugin etc.

Musicman20

I think Line 6 opened the world of modelling with excellent quality to those with modest budgets. Their updates are excellent. They really do keep pushing the boundaries.

I agree that perhaps the next step is fantastic high output/lightweight cab/frfr solutions, which do exist but I think there is work to do. 

So far I am extremely impressed with my Stomp.

It would be nice to have some absolutely bizarre new delays/reverbs/noise makers added....

menamestom

I'd like to see some high quality blank slate processors from the likes of Eventide, Strymon, UA etc.

Multi FX with say 5 slots where you can load 5 of their algo's to taste.

I don't need 300 average quality effects or amps, I want high quality ones that I choose, with physical knobs for each.

These units exist as only single pedals atm, 1 box DSP pedals with high quality effects, but I'd like more in the 1 unit.

Or a VST loader where you can load any plugin and use in pedal format.



None of this will happen of course because it would make less money.

Neunaber nearly did it with their slate and EXP, but it's a bit clunky (having 2 boxes) and no user interface other than LED's.  plus their specialty is very much the reverb part.   But if I could buy and load their VST into a pedal, that would be cool.

paganskins

Lewy said:

AntonHunter said:

Danny1969 said:

I would like split processing but that needs a new guitar pickup too and a 3 conductor cable. Basically I want to be able to play with one patch on the bottom 2 strings and one patch on the other 4. I was playing around with a guitar synth last night which could kind of do this, opens up a lot of options when using the guitar as a solo instrument. 

Check out Submarine pickups as a way of doing this. 

It would be awesome if someone could do this in a box with filtering etc as opposed to faffing around with additional pickups, trailing leads etc. It would need to be pitch rather than string triggered though, in the same way that an OC-3 can just apply it's effect to notes below a certain pitch. I've played around with this a lot and the closest I've come it the KMA Tyler which is frequency based - basically a box with two sides - a High Pass and a Low Pass, each which their own FX loop - it's not perfect obviously but can get you somewhere in that ballpark.

SY300 and possibly SY200 can do this, there's crossovers in Helix, Boss MFX and Fractal I believe.

AntonHunter

paganskins said:

Lewy said:

AntonHunter said:

Danny1969 said:

I would like split processing but that needs a new guitar pickup too and a 3 conductor cable. Basically I want to be able to play with one patch on the bottom 2 strings and one patch on the other 4. I was playing around with a guitar synth last night which could kind of do this, opens up a lot of options when using the guitar as a solo instrument. 

Check out Submarine pickups as a way of doing this. 

It would be awesome if someone could do this in a box with filtering etc as opposed to faffing around with additional pickups, trailing leads etc. It would need to be pitch rather than string triggered though, in the same way that an OC-3 can just apply it's effect to notes below a certain pitch. I've played around with this a lot and the closest I've come it the KMA Tyler which is frequency based - basically a box with two sides - a High Pass and a Low Pass, each which their own FX loop - it's not perfect obviously but can get you somewhere in that ballpark.

SY300 and possibly SY200 can do this, there's crossovers in Helix, Boss MFX and Fractal I believe.

For my uses I needed it to be isolatable by string rather than pitch, but can definitely see how crossover stuff is more convenient for a lot of purposes.

Anyway, sorry for dragging us off topic. 

crunchman

I think the next big thing is losing dedicated hardware processing completely.  There is very good modelling software out there for PCs and Macs.  Why shell out £1500 on a Quad Cortex/Kemper/Axe FX, when you can get really good modelling on your laptop for a quarter of that?

You see already see a lot of keyboard players just using their keyboards as a controller with a laptop to generate the sounds.  I think that will eventually come for guitar.  We will need some kind of USB or Bluetooth foot controller, but that shouldn't be too hard.

Grumpyrocker

I wonder if form factor is also something worth looking at. A modeller in a traditional amp head is at an ideal height for fiddling with - rather than one on the floor. I guess we already have racks and the like, but I'd quite something that looked like a head with a separate footswitch. But maybe that's due to my aching back and poor eyesight. 

sjo89

crunchman said:

I think the next big thing is losing dedicated hardware processing completely.  There is very good modelling software out there for PCs and Macs.  Why shell out £1500 on a Quad Cortex/Kemper/Axe FX, when you can get really good modelling on your laptop for a quarter of that?

You see already see a lot of keyboard players just using their keyboards as a controller with a laptop to generate the sounds.  I think that will eventually come for guitar.  We will need some kind of USB or Bluetooth foot controller, but that shouldn't be too hard.

I would argue that the interface and lag with laptop interfaces isn’t quite there yet compared to dedicated modellers. When I record direct to my DAW, even with lowest buffer setting the lag is quite noticeable under the fingers. 

I’m sure it will get there. Hell one day you’ll just plug your guitar into your phone and gig with that 

digitalscream

menamestom said:

I'd like to see some high quality blank slate processors from the likes of Eventide, Strymon, UA etc.

TC had the capability for doing this 10+ years ago when they brought out the TonePrint pedals. The guts are basically identical across all of them, and they already have a MIDI implementation over the USB port (that's how the editor works). They would literally just have to do a bit of software work, and their pedals would've been perfect general-purpose DSP units you could reconfigure on the fly. I even sent them a design for how it could work.

Instead, they decided on the winning strategy of waiting a decade and bringing out the half-baked Plethora X5, to a rapturous "meh".

Grumpyrocker

I seem to remember a "blank slate" pedal being a thing a few years ago. I can't remember who made it - perhaps Mooer or Joyo. And you could set what the pedal did via your phone. 

Edit: It was the Hotone Xtomp

http://xtomp.com/