Duncan vs Dimarzio characteristics

tekbow

Now both companies make a ma-hoo-sive range of pickups.

But could it be said that, all things considered, they have a general character to them? Like mesa compared to marshall?

Funkfingers

tekbow said:

could it be said that, all things considered, they have a general character to them? Like mesa compared to marshall?

I have always been of the opinion that the mid range emphasis of the two brands are at different frequencies. Almost as if Duncan tests pickups through Fender amplification and DiMarzio/Blucher choose Marshall. (This is, of course, a gross oversimplification.)

tekbow

Funkfingers said:

tekbow said:

could it be said that, all things considered, they have a general character to them? Like mesa compared to marshall?

I have always been of the opinion that the mid range emphasis of the two brands are at different frequencies. Almost as if Duncan tests pickups through Fender amplification and DiMarzio/Blucher choose Marshall. (This is, of course, a gross oversimplification.)

Interesting, so Duncan would have a more general midrange feel with less lows and highs while Dimarzio would be more scooped?

Dave_Mc

Funkfingers said:

tekbow said:

could it be said that, all things considered, they have a general character to them? Like mesa compared to marshall?

I have always been of the opinion that the mid range emphasis of the two brands are at different frequencies. Almost as if Duncan tests pickups through Fender amplification and DiMarzio/Blucher choose Marshall. (This is, of course, a gross oversimplification.)

Yeah that's sort of what I feel, too. I haven't tried anywhere close to all of their models, but the ones I have tried... yeah. Bit like Celestion vs Eminence for speakers.

tekbow said:

Funkfingers said:

tekbow said:

could it be said that, all things considered, they have a general character to them? Like mesa compared to marshall?

I have always been of the opinion that the mid range emphasis of the two brands are at different frequencies. Almost as if Duncan tests pickups through Fender amplification and DiMarzio/Blucher choose Marshall. (This is, of course, a gross oversimplification.)

Interesting, so Duncan would have a more general midrange feel with less lows and highs while Dimarzio would be more scooped?

No more like the frequency of the mids. To my ears Duncans are a bit more classics-sounding/brighter in the mids and Dimarzio a bit darker. 

ICBM

tekbow said:

Now both companies make a ma-hoo-sive range of pickups.

But could it be said that, all things considered, they have a general character to them? Like mesa compared to marshall?

Yes.

Dave_Mc said:

I haven't tried anywhere close to all of their models, but the ones I have tried... yeah. Bit like Celestion vs Eminence for speakers.

Exactly. It’s some sort of subtle but consistent difference that goes across all the different models and individual voicings both companies make.

Dave_Mc said:

No more like the frequency of the mids. To my ears Duncans are a bit more classics-sounding/brighter in the mids and Dimarzio a bit darker. 

Yes, and to me DiMarzios generally have a very slight ‘grit’ to the sound, whereas Duncans are smoother. Most noticeable on the humbuckers, but the singles to some extent as well. Duncans sound more ‘classic rock’, DiMarzios more ‘hard rock’, for want of a better description.

Funkfingers said:

Almost as if Duncan tests pickups through Fender amplification and DiMarzio/Blucher choose Marshall.

There may be something in that...

FelineGuitars

+1 for my experience 
Thinking that the brass bass plates of Duncans vs Nickel silver of the Duncans plays a part also

guitargeek62

FelineGuitars said:

+1 for my experience 
Thinking that the brass bass plates of Duncans vs Nickel silver of the Duncans plays a part also

Well at least that part is (relatively) easy to test - assuming the screws line up on both

guitars4you

ICBM said:

Yes, and to me DiMarzios generally have a very slight ‘grit’ to the sound, whereas Duncans are smoother. Most noticeable on the humbuckers, but the singles to some extent as well. Duncans sound more ‘classic rock’, DiMarzios more ‘hard rock’, for want of a better description.

In a nut shell that is my take on it  - I've used the word gritty snarl before to describe a DiMarzio humbucker - As such DiMarzio are far more rock orientated and maybe the more gain the better - S Duncan cover a wide range of musical genre with both clean, less gain and hi-gain - IMO 

therealting

Interesting. I definitely associate DiMarzio with harder rock and Duncans with classic rock, but generally have gone for other pickups when retrofitting. Curious to see where Bareknuckle and Suhr fit in.

On bass I generally go for Nordstrands, they definitely have a certain character to them that I quite like. 

tekbow

therealting said:

Interesting. I definitely associate DiMarzio with harder rock and Duncans with classic rock, but generally have gone for other pickups when retrofitting. Curious to see where Bareknuckle and Suhr fit in.

On bass I generally go for Nordstrands, they definitely have a certain character to them that I quite like. 

Interesting you bring up other brands as it's something I had thought about as an aside whilst composing this, but decided against including because only tenuously relevant.

Basically when I came back to guitar in the mid 2000's, it was at a point When "boutique" was really taking off.

But recently, especially since a boss SD1 kicked a keeley TS808 Off my board, which in turn had kicked a KOT off my board, I've kind of come to thinking what is it makes "boutique" stuff inherently better, since its it's all subjective?

Like Dimarzio/Duncan vs BKP? BKPs are pricey these days,and that's fine. I love em in my McCarty Trem but I've no particular need to replace my other pickups which are mostly Dimarzio in terms of HBs.

But if a thing does exactly what you want it to, they how can another thing be better? This is something you hear a lot. "Oh, common pedal X?? Listen, handbuilt super special pedal Zero Alpha is much better".

I'm not rubbishing small Company stuff here BTW. I went with a Gemini Warlord for my Bacchus mainly because it seemed a bit different, and was comparable in cost to a Duncan. My D*A*M Dragnfly is a genuinely flexible fuzz that plays nice with my wah etc etc

If a BKP etc genuinely did something that I specifically wanted, I'd also spend the money.

Philly_Q

It's an interesting thread.  All I can really say is that I've always thought of Duncans as more "classic" and DiMarzios as more "modern". 

Both offer huge ranges of very different-sounding pickups so it's hard to say if there's a characteristic sound. 

Just thinking of some of the DiMarzios I've had - PAF, PAF Pro, FRED, MegaDrive, Tone Zone - they sound hugely different from each other.  FRED and PAF Pro, for example, are quite bright and clear with very little bass (to my ears), but the Tone Zone is Bass City.  And I don't even know any of the more recent models, there are loads of those.

I'm not so familiar with Duncans apart from the bog standard JB/'59/Jazz but I do like the ones which are basically the same pickup with different magnets - Custom, Custom Custom and Custom 5.  It's interesting to hear how different they are from each other.

TTBZ

I would agree with that as well. I prefer the sound of the Dimarzios I've used in general. They're a bit more neutral and natural sounding, whereas the SDs have this weird congested mids thing and some muddiness that I don't always like. The thing about being voiced more with Fender amps makes sense in that respect. 

I've used a lot of BKPs and the main trait they all share is clarity and definition. Even the metal ones are quite "clean" sounding if that means anything. Gibson pickups always seem to have a bit of grit to them which I've grown to like.

Philly_Q

One area in which the DiMarzio range seems to be a bit lacking is what BKP call "vintage hot". 

There seem to be dozens of high output Vai and Petrucci models (has anyone ever had more signature pickups than John Petrucci?) but the "medium power" section of their range is mostly neck pickups!  I suppose the Satriani models fall into this area but again I think of them as rather "modern".

tekbow

TTBZ said:

I've used a lot of BKPs and the main trait they all share is clarity and definition. Even the metal ones are quite "clean" sounding if that means anything. Gibson pickups always seem to have a bit of grit to them which I've grown to like.

This may be true, and my experience of BKP is similar.

That being said, I don't actually Find the level of clarity and definition in my Dimarzios problematic as it were?

Perhaps my technique has adapted to where I can wring these things out of "my sound" without noticing any extra effort, or perhaps the amps I use compensate, or my amp settings, how i setup my boosts etc?

Possibly these qualities will be more noticeable straight into an Amp, vs subconsciously adjusting the chain at many points to get desired results?

tekbow

Philly_Q said:

One area in which the DiMarzio range seems to be a bit lacking is what BKP call "vintage hot". 

There seem to be dozens of high output Vai and Petrucci models (has anyone ever had more signature pickups than John Petrucci?) but the "medium power" section of their range is mostly neck pickups!  I suppose the Satriani models fall into this area but again I think of them as rather "modern".

True. Dimarzio has always seemed to have added the latest technical supremos of the time to their roster of endorsees and have maintained a contemporary voicing based on constantly tweaking what they want, which filters down to the non sig pickups.

The most vintage hot voiced stuff they have are the pickups they still produce which were designed for folks that were contemporary 30 years ago.

Philly_Q

tekbow said:

Philly_Q said:

One area in which the DiMarzio range seems to be a bit lacking is what BKP call "vintage hot". 

There seem to be dozens of high output Vai and Petrucci models (has anyone ever had more signature pickups than John Petrucci?) but the "medium power" section of their range is mostly neck pickups!  I suppose the Satriani models fall into this area but again I think of them as rather "modern".

True. Dimarzio has always seemed to have added the latest technical supremos of the time to their roster of endorsees and have maintained a contemporary voicing based on constantly tweaking what they want, which filters down to the non sig pickups.

The most vintage hot voiced stuff they have are the pickups they still produce which were designed for folks that were contemporary 30 years ago.

I think the Norton might be worth a go, but I've always been put off by the fact that they say "the sound of a Norton is right between FRED and The Tone Zone".   I like FRED but hate the TZ, so I've always worried that Norton may be closer to the latter...

Dave_Mc

ICBM said:

Dave_Mc said:

I haven't tried anywhere close to all of their models, but the ones I have tried... yeah. Bit like Celestion vs Eminence for speakers.

Exactly. It’s some sort of subtle but consistent difference that goes across all the different models and individual voicings both companies make.

Dave_Mc said:

No more like the frequency of the mids. To my ears Duncans are a bit more classics-sounding/brighter in the mids and Dimarzio a bit darker. 

Yes, and to me DiMarzios generally have a very slight ‘grit’ to the sound, whereas Duncans are smoother. Most noticeable on the humbuckers, but the singles to some extent as well. Duncans sound more ‘classic rock’, DiMarzios more ‘hard rock’, for want of a better description.

Yeah that's sort of what I'd say, too. I'd describe it that the Duncans sound more "classic rock", while the Dimarzios sound more "modern rock", rather than hard rock- there's a lot of hard rock which has more of the Duncan kind of sound (to my ears at least!), whereas that characteristic "modern" tone you hear on a lot of more modern (last 10-15 years) heavier stuff and gear demos of high gain amps on Youtube sounds more Dimarzio to my ears. Also Dimarzios seem to work very well for that virtuoso/shredder type of thing.

I don't have that much experience with the single coils- I'm a lot more used to the humbuckers. I think it's probably model-dependent, too- something lower output like a PAF Pro doesn't have just as much of that type of tone to my ears (though it's probably still there a bit, I do agree it seems to go across all the models I've tried, just a bit less so with some models).

FelineGuitars said:

+1 for my experience 
Thinking that the brass bass plates of Duncans vs Nickel silver of the Duncans plays a part also

I'm not sure if that would do it or not. I've tried pickups from other manufacturers which have brass baseplates too, and they don't (to my ears!) have that Dimarzio sound. That's not to say the brass isn't exacerbating it (it probably is)- but it doesn't seem to be the only thing.

I've also noticed that Dimarzio seem to have a few recent models which have nickel silver baseplates... I haven't tried them, though  

TTBZ said:

I would agree with that as well. I prefer the sound of the Dimarzios I've used in general. They're a bit more neutral and natural sounding, whereas the SDs have this weird congested mids thing and some muddiness that I don't always like. The thing about being voiced more with Fender amps makes sense in that respect. 

I've used a lot of BKPs and the main trait they all share is clarity and definition. Even the metal ones are quite "clean" sounding if that means anything. Gibson pickups always seem to have a bit of grit to them which I've grown to like.

Yeah I'd agree with that regarding the BKPs- I'd actually say that (in my experience) that main trait of clarity actually applies (more or less) to pretty much all of the handwound pickups I've tried. Which is why I don't really feel that Bareknuckles are really worth the money any more- you can usually get something similar for less from another handwinding company, usually for a similar price (if not less) to Duncan or Dimarzio.

Funnily enough, although I prefer handwound, I can never really decide whether I prefer Dimarzio or Duncans. I think I prefer how Dimarzios "feel" to play- they seem a bit clearer, seem to have better harmonics and that suits the way I play better. But I think I prefer the more classic tone of Duncans. I think that's why I prefer handwound, they sort of give me the best of both...

Tat2dstesh

I've got a good selection of pickups, Oilcity's, Bareknuckle, Dimarzio and Duncans. 
All seem very different which is good but they are on very different guitars. In general though I do think Duncans have a more gritty in your face kind of sound from what I have used (custom, C5, Distortion, JB, JB8, 59) Dimarzios have a bigger feel, more lowmid smoother kind of sound with the ones I have used (Distortion, tonezone, norton, fred) excepet the D-activator which was very similar to the emg81 I had at the time in my jim root tele. 
Gotta say for the money I actually do prefer the 2 oilcity pickups I have in my guitars but its nice to have a something different to go to. 

Funkfingers

Until recently, I have tended to avoid having DiMarzio pickups in my own guitars. This changed when I modified an ex-Harry Seven Charvel Model 3. I fed it an old The Breed humbucker and an Air Norton S.

Immediately, I could extract certain Vai/Gilbert/Petrucci tones that none of my other guitars yield. 'Tis pity that I lack the talent of those guys to fully exploit the DiMarzio sounds.

Philly_Q

If nothing else follows from this thread, I think I have convinced myself to buy a DiMarzio Norton.

grungebob

Dimarzio HS2 is my favourite singlecoil, their 36th anniversary PAFs are great too. 

I didn’t like the air Norton I tried it was very clean but spiky undergain and lacked compression. 

For Duncan’s I love the JB as the do it all humbucker and for high gain stuff I’ve not heard better than the sentient/Nazgûl set.