Adulting: Part 1 - buying a new boiler. Help needed

Haych

spark240 said:

Shouldn't we be considering alternatives nowadays ?

All electric boilers etc?

When we've all switched over to electric cars and electric heating, will the grid be able to cope with the massive surge in demand?

Knowing Blighty we'll import extra capacity from other countries <insert eyeroll here>

RandallFlagg

Wazmeister said:

RandallFlagg said:

We replaced our old boiler after it was condemned as unserviceable with an Ideal Logic+ combi in 2015 with a 7 year warranty, 6 years of trouble free running so far and the installer services it annually, says it's still like a brand new boiler. he only recommends Ideal and has fitted hundreds and never had a fault with any of them. he also fitted one of those magnetic thingies that keeps the system clean.

https://idealheating.com

Never ever buy an Ideal.

Utter shite and reknown for it - you'll be buying PCBs in pairs to replace them.

Well between your advice and my trusted old friend from school who recommended and fitted our Ideal boiler 6 years ago and continues to fit them every week since it's tough to know who to listen to.

Wazmeister

RandallFlagg said:

Wazmeister said:

RandallFlagg said:

We replaced our old boiler after it was condemned as unserviceable with an Ideal Logic+ combi in 2015 with a 7 year warranty, 6 years of trouble free running so far and the installer services it annually, says it's still like a brand new boiler. he only recommends Ideal and has fitted hundreds and never had a fault with any of them. he also fitted one of those magnetic thingies that keeps the system clean.

https://idealheating.com

Never ever buy an Ideal.

Utter shite and reknown for it - you'll be buying PCBs in pairs to replace them.

Well between your advice and my trusted old friend from school who recommended and fitted our Ideal boiler 6 years ago and continues to fit them every week since it's tough to know who to listen to.

Im not bothered either way… time will tell. 

Nitefly

spark240 said:

Shouldn't we be considering alternatives nowadays ?

All electric boilers etc?

I popped in to my local Worcester Bosch dealer the other day, to arrange the annual service on our 7-year-old WB gas boiler - it still has 3 years to run on the warranty, subject to annual service.

While I was in there I asked about air pump systems, so they showed me the latest kit.

Jesus H Christ!  I'll have to have an extension built - the boiler is the size of a fridge-freezer!  Then the tank is at least twice the size of the old immersion tank we had taken out in 2014, with masses of piping attached.  And then you need the bloody big noisy box on the outside with the fan in it. 

We are in a 1972-built 3-bed semi, brick-built with cavity wall insulation.

Won't be doing electric here anytime soon.

exocet

Nitefly said:

spark240 said:

Shouldn't we be considering alternatives nowadays ?

All electric boilers etc?

I popped in to my local Worcester Bosch dealer the other day, to arrange the annual service on our 7-year-old WB gas boiler - it still has 3 years to run on the warranty, subject to annual service.

While I was in there I asked about air pump systems, so they showed me the latest kit.

Jesus H Christ!  I'll have to have an extension built - the boiler is the size of a fridge-freezer!  Then the tank is at least twice the size of the old immersion tank we had taken out in 2014, with masses of piping attached.  And then you need the bloody big noisy box on the outside with the fan in it. 

We are in a 1972-built 3-bed semi, brick-built with cavity wall insulation.

Won't be doing electric here anytime soon.

Therein lies the other problem. The kit is larger and a significant number of households (in terraced / smaller houses) moved to combi boilers to save space.

Philly_Q

I live in a first floor flat, in an old building with little scope for improving the insulation.  I can't imagine a heat pump will ever be a viable option.

bobblehat

TheMadMick said:

The two that seem best are Worcester Bosch and Vaillant. We have the latter and in 10 years we have had 2 hoses replaced (no longer used - designed out) and a new logic board - nearly £300.00. Our next boiler will be a Worcester Bosch if we can get a hydrogen ready one - not available yet. y son's Worceter Bosch combi has been good for the last 4 years.

You wont be seeing domestic Hydrogen (if at all) until at least 2035 or beyond.  

boogieman

Late to the party but I would recommend Vaillant boilers. Everyone will recommend different brands based on their own experience though… I had no end of problems with a Potterton at one of my old places but my neighbour here has had his going for 25 years plus and it’s never given him any grief. Most of the manufacturers will give a decent warranty nowadays but you have to have an annual service done by an approved company to keep it going. 

Avoid installs by British Gas like the plague, they jack up their prices hugely to cover the costs of their monthly credit schemes. Their standard of installation is pretty abysmal too, judging by a couple of jobs I’ve seen. 

If you live in a hard water area get a limescale filter fitted to the water inlet, limescale is the worst thing for killing the heat exchanger on a combi. Also it’s definitely worth having a Magnaclean filter put in on the rad circuit, especially if you’re keeping the existing pipework and/or rads. Possibly consider having the system powerflushed at the time of install too … you’d be amazed at the sheer amount of sludge and magnetite (black rust) that comes out, especially if the system has been run without any inhibitor in the circuit for any length of time. 

darthed1981

Although I might be wrong here it seems like the dialogue at the moment in this country is all contrary bollocks.

1.  Gas boilers are evil and a big part of the UK's carbon footprint - OK fine, alternative needed.
2.  Electric boilers are vastly less efficient, and use electricity we currently can't generate - Ahh... OK then.
3.  Heat pumps are great... IF you have 15k to drop to fit it, your house is fantastically well insulated and built since about 1990 (ruling out 75% of UK houses), it happens to have been built with fitting one in mind, and you have room outside for a giant box.... errr.... OK

Given the way the COP26 looks like going, maybe better to just buy a boat?

boogieman

Rather surprised that the big boiler manufacturers haven’t come up with a cleaner gas boiler if it’s such a big pollution issue. They’re going to be losing a hell of a lot of business after all. I’m sure that would work better in a lot of the current housing stock too, where heat pumps just aren’t feasible. 

Rich210

boogieman said:

Late to the party but I would recommend Vaillant boilers. Everyone will recommend different brands based on their own experience though… I had no end of problems with a Potterton at one of my old places but my neighbour here has had his going for 25 years plus and it’s never given him any grief. Most of the manufacturers will give a decent warranty nowadays but you have to have an annual service done by an approved company to keep it going. 

Avoid installs by British Gas like the plague, they jack up their prices hugely to cover the costs of their monthly credit schemes. Their standard of installation is pretty abysmal too, judging by a couple of jobs I’ve seen. 

If you live in a hard water area get a limescale filter fitted to the water inlet, limescale is the worst thing for killing the heat exchanger on a combi. Also it’s definitely worth having a Magnaclean filter put in on the rad circuit, especially if you’re keeping the existing pipework and/or rads. Possibly consider having the system powerflushed at the time of install too … you’d be amazed at the sheer amount of sludge and magnetite (black rust) that comes out, especially if the system has been run without any inhibitor in the circuit for any length of time. 

Thanks for your input, we were looking at all types of boilers and the Vaillant seem to review well! When the family plumber said £1850 with the magnaclean filter and 10 year warranty the Baxi seemed like a great deal. I think he's going to give the system a flush and I'd expect the magnaclean thingy to do some magic. I'll speak to him about having the system flushed prior, but I'm not sure he'll have the time. We're already getting a favour with a very short notice job, and he's travelling a fair way because I'm not round the corner any more. 

AllthegearNoidea

Another vote for Worcester Bosch. I’ve had one issue with it that was due to oil contamination. Apart from that a very good product. 

chillidoggy

darthed1981 said:

Although I might be wrong here it seems like the dialogue at the moment in this country is all contrary bollocks.

1.  Gas boilers are evil and a big part of the UK's carbon footprint - OK fine, alternative needed.
2.  Electric boilers are vastly less efficient, and use electricity we currently can't generate - Ahh... OK then.
3.  Heat pumps are great... IF you have 15k to drop to fit it, your house is fantastically well insulated and built since about 1990 (ruling out 75% of UK houses), it happens to have been built with fitting one in mind, and you have room outside for a giant box.... errr.... OK

Given the way the COP26 looks like going, maybe better to just buy a boat?

Buying a boat should only ever be considered if one is in imminent danger of drowning.

boogieman

Rich210 said:

boogieman said:

Late to the party but I would recommend Vaillant boilers. Everyone will recommend different brands based on their own experience though… I had no end of problems with a Potterton at one of my old places but my neighbour here has had his going for 25 years plus and it’s never given him any grief. Most of the manufacturers will give a decent warranty nowadays but you have to have an annual service done by an approved company to keep it going. 

Avoid installs by British Gas like the plague, they jack up their prices hugely to cover the costs of their monthly credit schemes. Their standard of installation is pretty abysmal too, judging by a couple of jobs I’ve seen. 

If you live in a hard water area get a limescale filter fitted to the water inlet, limescale is the worst thing for killing the heat exchanger on a combi. Also it’s definitely worth having a Magnaclean filter put in on the rad circuit, especially if you’re keeping the existing pipework and/or rads. Possibly consider having the system powerflushed at the time of install too … you’d be amazed at the sheer amount of sludge and magnetite (black rust) that comes out, especially if the system has been run without any inhibitor in the circuit for any length of time. 

Thanks for your input, we were looking at all types of boilers and the Vaillant seem to review well! When the family plumber said £1850 with the magnaclean filter and 10 year warranty the Baxi seemed like a great deal. I think he's going to give the system a flush and I'd expect the magnaclean thingy to do some magic. I'll speak to him about having the system flushed prior, but I'm not sure he'll have the time. We're already getting a favour with a very short notice job, and he's travelling a fair way because I'm not round the corner any more. 

Well the power flush isn’t vital, and yeah the Magnaclean will pick up a fair bit of crud. You can use it as a dosing pot too as you can isolate it from the system via a couple of built in valves. Really well designed bit of kit that makes it easy to add inhibitor and/or system cleaner without having all the mess of breaking into the water circuit. 

equalsql

My gas engineer is a family friend and services my old boiler every year. He also does industrial furnance and boiler maintenance for companies around the UK. I sometimes spend the day with him to help him arrange the networking and configuration of monitoring devices for these systems. He's a top bloke and highly experienced gas engineer. Whenever I have asked him what make of boiler I should have installed when my old boiler dies on me, every time he states categorically: Worcester And Bosch. He reckons nothing else comes close to their reliability and quality of build on the domestic heating market.

exocet

boogieman said:

Rather surprised that the big boiler manufacturers haven’t come up with a cleaner gas boiler if it’s such a big pollution issue. They’re going to be losing a hell of a lot of business after all. I’m sure that would work better in a lot of the current housing stock too, where heat pumps just aren’t feasible. 

The issue is the pollution from burning Natural Gas. It's far less of an issue than burning coal but it's still (domestic heating) responsible for something like 20% of UK CO2 emissions. There are tests going on to evaluate the burning of a Hydrogen / Natural gas mix but my understanding is that this only reduces Natural Gas content by 20%. Most of us don't even get the high (90 % +) efficiency figures that modern condensing boilers are capable of because we don't operate them in condensing mode - you need to run the radiators at 56 degrees flow temp to do that, I'd guess that the majority of UK houses are not insulated well enough / have large enough radiators to heat effectively at that temperature in the depths of winter.

Philly_Q

I've a nasty feeling this thread is an omen...  I've got a boiler inspection on Friday, for the first time in several years.  It works OK, touch wood, but it's 22 years old and I've a nasty feeling they're going to tell me something needs replacing and they don't make the parts any more.

Still, on the bright side the thread has some useful info.

ToneControl

boogieman said:

Late to the party but I would recommend Vaillant boilers. Everyone will recommend different brands based on their own experience though… I had no end of problems with a Potterton at one of my old places but my neighbour here has had his going for 25 years plus and it’s never given him any grief. Most of the manufacturers will give a decent warranty nowadays but you have to have an annual service done by an approved company to keep it going. 

Avoid installs by British Gas like the plague, they jack up their prices hugely to cover the costs of their monthly credit schemes. Their standard of installation is pretty abysmal too, judging by a couple of jobs I’ve seen. 

If you live in a hard water area get a limescale filter fitted to the water inlet, limescale is the worst thing for killing the heat exchanger on a combi. Also it’s definitely worth having a Magnaclean filter put in on the rad circuit, especially if you’re keeping the existing pipework and/or rads. Possibly consider having the system powerflushed at the time of install too … you’d be amazed at the sheer amount of sludge and magnetite (black rust) that comes out, especially if the system has been run without any inhibitor in the circuit for any length of time. 

everyone should do this

ToneControl

I got 3 replacement combi boilers fitted over the last 3 years, fitted price varying from £1000-£1100

These are made by Vokera, with long manufacturer warranties

hywelg

My Baxi is 27 years old and due for replacement but it works so I'm sticking with it until the picture is clearer regarding new tech. 

I would spend on a ground source heat pump but for the problem that I live in a splendid Edwardian house with original sash windows, stained glass, cavity walls and elaborate cornice to the main rooms. So indeed deep borehole ground source but that is a hell of a long way off yet.

So insulating is problematic. All the uneducated plebs say of course you can;

• Fit new double glazed sash windows.
• Retain your stained glass
• Fit cavity wall insulation
• Insulate your external walls internally or externally.

To which I say

• Yes there are good versions that look good from the outside but they are hellish expensive approx £1.5k per sash and I have 16 of them to replace . And they look crap on the inside because the frames are so deep there's no room for a staff bead on the inside.
• If you encapsulate your stained glass you lose much of its character
• Cavity wall insulation with old porous brick work is well known to produce damp problems.
• Cost to fit insulation is one thing, the add on cost to replicate cornice, dado rail, skirting boards dwarfs it. No way will I fit external insulation over beautiful old narrow jointed aged brickwork.
• Besides why would I want to insulate my bedrooms when we sleep with the window open 10 months of the year. Not allowed to miss bits out and still comply.

I often end up raging when I hear some of the tosh that comes out of eco proponents.