Selling self-builds

davros

Since beginning this hobby about 2 years ago I have built 6 guitars, 7th on the way. All of these are genuinely very well made guitars, and probably each have upwards of £600 in parts and timber.

I generally prefer not to have more than 10 electrics at a time and only have 3 now (a Fender, a Gibson and a Gretsch) that are not self-builds.

So, the question that comes to mind is, if I were to sell any, how much would they be worth? I know it would depend on the specific guitar and its desirability but generally, would it be
- Value of used parts
- Value of used parts less a bit (like a partscaster)
- Value of used parts plus a bit
- Used Gibson USA prices
- Used Gibson custom shop
- Used luthier built prices

My inclination is that it would be somewhere around #3. For example, the les paul junior as a benchmark - could I realistically get £1000 for it or is that excessive?

I'm not actually planning to sell any right now as I love them all and built each to fulfil a personal desire, but if I continue to build 2 a year (because I enjoy the process of building), it's going to be tough to keep them all.

Also, I'd be interested in your own approach to this, as a builder.

Gratuitous builds pic

Jaycee

Lovely builds,  The two that I have sold were for my brother and mate, I covered the materials and a few tools, plus £100.

The setup has to be good on self builds imho, buyers will say "I can buy a Fender or Gibson for £600"  having said that a lot of players will appreciate the time taken and skill  that has gone into building and pay a bit more.

WezV

I don't really have an answer, still trying to figure it out

All I will say is it can be bloody frustrating trying to sell unique guitars for  a decent price when you are relatively unknown.    Your Junior and LP's will likely be an easy sell at the right price, although £1k for a junior from an unknown maker will likely be pushing it, but I wouldn't start below that.

The others, as much as people will praise them, will not sell easily.  Unique guitars need a unique buyer, and finding that person can take time.  It's a risk when the second hand value will be much lower

That may sound negative, but its likely because I am currently trying to sell a few guitars I am really proud of, and getting next to no interest at all.  

Jaycee

WezV said:

I don't really have an answer, still trying to figure it out

All I will say is it can be bloody frustrating trying to sell unique guitars for  a decent price when you are relatively unknown.    Your Junior and LP will likely be an easy sell at the right price, although £1k for a junior from an unknown maker will likely be pushing it, but I wouldn't start below that.

The others, as much as people will praise them, will not sell easily.  Unique guitars need a unique byer, and finding that person can take time.  It's a risk when the second hand value will be much lower

+1

WezV

I will say I think its much harder now as the market has changed.   I've been building 20 years now, usually selling a few a year.      I don't really remember struggling to sell anything  when i started.

now there are a hell of a lot more guitar builders out there.   A lot more horror stories too

Obviously its been harder to get them into peoples hands the last few years, so that doesn't help. 

davros

Thanks guys. Ultimately, I'm building guitars because I enjoy the process and because I have a 'need' for whatever the result is.

I see from the difficulty you've had in selling your hollowbody, Wez, which is a stunning guitar, that this wouldn't be a moneymaker for me. It would just be nice to recoup most of the costs to keep funding the hobby when I get tired of the instrument.

Same reason why Fenders and Gibsons lose their value a lot slower than arguably better guitars from the likes of PJEggle, most people want the name as much as a nice guitar.

I think, now that I'm through the first few builds, is to try and build something I really want myself with an eye on what might shift in the future if I needed to. I'm also spending more time on each build so each one keeps me occupied longer and is more of an enjoyable challenge. The first few I was impatient to get playing.

davros

WezV said:

I will say I think its much harder now as the market has changed.   I've been building 20 years now, usually selling a few a year.      I don't really remember struggling to sell anything  when i started.

now there are a hell of a lot more guitar builders out there.   A lot more horror stories too

Obviously its been harder to get them into peoples hands the last few years, so that doesn't help. 

There are also a lot more guitars out there in general and people seem to move them on quicker than ever.

Ultimately that means they'll not only be thinking about how much they want a guitar as whether they'll get their money back when they want to sell it on. That's an easier decision with a known brand.

WezV

don't be totally put off by my responses... just take note that I am clearly doing something wrong when it comes to selling them  

I'm still trying to decide the best place to sell them.  I have some listed here, reverb and a few facebook groups without much interest.   I might have to resort to ebay again soon.   One big issues is I don't currently want to offer postage. Partly due to risk, partly due to them being so unique.   I might have to review that soon if things are still not moving 

downbytheriver

WezV said:

I will say I think its much harder now as the market has changed.   I've been building 20 years now, usually selling a few a year.      I don't really remember struggling to sell anything  when i started.

now there are a hell of a lot more guitar builders out there.   A lot more horror stories too

Obviously its been harder to get them into peoples hands the last few years, so that doesn't help. 

I think everything is a bit hard to sell now - amps, pedals and guitars. I lust after the wez Archtop that is for sale but I can’t justify it with no gigs and squeezed personal exchequer 

davros

Don't worry, I'm not put off and very much a realist, just because I think something's nice and see value in the time invested, that doesn't mean others will!!

At the end of the day, it's a hobby for me and no more expensive than many others. I have nothing but admiration for those that are able to make a business out of building guitars.

prowla

Well, if they're a used guitar, then people will expect to pay used guitar prices.

If they're a copy, then people will look at similar (or apparently similar) copies and judge accordingly.

If they're esoteric looking, then you'll need to find someone who has similar tastes in esoterica.

If they're assembled from parts, then they'll likely not be worth as much as the cost of the parts and your time & labour is not a factor.

TTony

If it's purely a hobby, then your approach can afford to be different to if it's something you do to earn a bit extra.

The challenge - persuading people to buy an unplayed instrument from an unknown builder - will still be the same, just that it'll be a bit easier if the price is £500 rather than £1000. 

Either way, the buyer will have to be seduced by the look of the guitar, and being able to see the build process (to get some idea of quality of workmanship) by reading (hopefully) a build thread here.  Oh, and they've got to have spare cash that they don't mind losing (resale value risk).

Yours are all slightly quirky, which is good - they'll appeal to someone looking for something a little different - and also bad - you'll not sell them to someone considering a Mex Fender!  

Bottom line;
I'd say, if you can cover the cost of your parts, then as a hobbyist, you're doing well.  You'll often see partsa-builds being stripped and sold for the parts instead because it was worth more (and easier to sell) as parts than as a complete instrument.

SteveRobinson

I sold a build last year for £600 which recouped costs plus a bit.

I think it might have been a bit too cheap though as it sold within 20 minutes of my posting!
https://www.thefretboard.co.uk/discussion/186317/sold-my-double-cut-london-plane-top-guitar

davros

Sounds like the cost of the build in parts and materials is a pretty good benchmark!

WezV

don't ignore consumable and tool costs if you want it as a self-funding hobby. 

ThePrettyDamned

WezV said:

I don't really have an answer, still trying to figure it out

All I will say is it can be bloody frustrating trying to sell unique guitars for  a decent price when you are relatively unknown.    Your Junior and LP's will likely be an easy sell at the right price, although £1k for a junior from an unknown maker will likely be pushing it, but I wouldn't start below that.

The others, as much as people will praise them, will not sell easily.  Unique guitars need a unique buyer, and finding that person can take time.  It's a risk when the second hand value will be much lower

That may sound negative, but its likely because I am currently trying to sell a few guitars I am really proud of, and getting next to no interest at all.  

This is it.

TTony

SteveRobinson said:

I sold a build last year for £600 which recouped costs plus a bit.

I think it might have been a bit too cheap though as it sold within 20 minutes of my posting!

Given your reputation here @SteveRobinson ; I'd say people would be reasonably confident in the quality of guitar, set-up and finishing that they'd be buying from you.

You are a well-known and respected professional.  So, £600 probably is on the "affordable" side, IMHO.

In contrast, I just spent a few minutes looking for a build thread for that blue single-cut semi-hollow  as it caught my eye.     

Couldn't find a thread, so I'm guessing that there's £300-£400 of parts in there.   At £300, I'd be tempted - it reminds me of a similar designed Crimson that I should have bought at a GBGS a few years ago.  At £600, I'd not be tempted because I don't know Davros, so it'd be a pure gamble.  Yours, at £600, wouldnt have been a gamble!

GoldenEraGuitars

One key factor in luthiers selling their work is branding and brand identity. The buyer doesn’t know what they’re getting if you simply tell them you’ve been scratch building for a while and now you’re selling them. They’ll usually hit Google to find out who (insert name) from (insert town/city) is and when they don’t find anything they’re unlikely to spend serious cash, regardless of how nice the guitar is.

Fender and Gibson stuff sells easily because no one questions the heritage. 

Another factor is good photography of the pieces, often many people selling their own builds dont go out of their way to enhance the pieces with proper photos. If you’re selling the odd build and you want to keep it as a hobby then recouping your money for the materials and parts is a good result these days. Realistically you’d have to sell them as “used” to avoid come back but if you start selling them as “new” then there are other issue to contend with.

Anyway, they all look great and there are likely buyers out there willing to pay for them. If you’re building as a hobby and it isn’t a money making exercise then there’s less pressure to make a profit as such. I hope you get what you want for them.

davros

Good points, Tony. The blue single cut was the one I built at Crimson in 2019 and I didn't do a build thread for that one! It was probably about £250 in parts (cheap pickups) plus the cost of the woods was maybe £300

Costs add up pretty quickly, conservatively for my last LP build
£180 for pickups
£250 for woods
£50 for tuners
£80 for bridge
£50 for electronics
£70 for nitro
£50 for sundries

That's £730 I think. Could be brought down to £300 with cheap parts and woods and an oil finish, but then I'm building for me so decent parts are part of the aim.

Meanwhile I bought an ES-335 new for £3k and sold it a couple of years later for £2300 (before prices went mental), so not a huge deal in terms of the gear merry-go-round.

TTony

davros said:

Good points, Tony. The blue single cut was the one I built at Crimson in 2019 and I didn't do a build thread for that one! It was probably about £250 in parts (cheap pickups) plus the cost of the woods was maybe £300

Ahhhhh - if you built it at Crimson, I'm guessing it was based on one of their standard (at the time) designs, hence the  familiar look of it.  Not sure I'd sell any of my Bailey-course builds ...

Agree with you re the costs mounting up.  I tend to grab parts when I see them (s/h) on the basis that "they'll come in handy for a build sometime".  I've got a lot of odds and ends in various cupboards now!  I generally buy my timber in plank form.  There's a bit of risk re quality/defects and a fair amount of waste, but it's a lot cheaper than buying pre-prepped blanks, and waste generally gets repurposed for something ...

WezV

Honestly @TTony ;I have some of the longest build threads on here and I don't think it makes a difference when it comes to selling them.  If anything  my warts and all approach might put a few off  

Might be because they are in a seperate section.  Just thinking back when things used to sell easier and it was when they were in a main section of a forum.

Although even here, its hit and miss..  my gold top sold pretty instantly with loads of interested parties.  Others, not so much

In terms of selling for cost of parts, that makes sense for some instruments and not others.  Definitely doesn't work for a simple but complex build like my archtop.


So the real question, where to sell?   

I like the idea of having some in a shop, but obviously it pushes prices up.   I'm holding off from the dreaded ebay  but it has worked well for me in the past.  Also means I need to think about shipping again.  Never had an issue in the past, but it still makes me nervous.  Reverb doesn't seem to work to well for them.

Scott makes a good point about photography.   Definitely not my strong suit.