Interesting design, what your thoughts

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  • DrumBobDrumBob Frets: 198
    ICBM, I think most guitarists want retro designs because we either grew up in that period of time when those guitars were new and have a nostalgic fondness for them, or because we've been told repeatedly that the golden years of guitar building were the 1950s-60s. 

    I admit to being one of those guys. I love Rickenbacker guitars, but am the first to admit that they are quirky and imperfect in some ways. On the 12 strings, the necks are too narrow on most models (except for the 660-12), the guitars come stock with a six saddle bridge that negates perfect tuning and intonation, and the control layout is odd. In addition, there's that "small knob" that nobody seems to understand (it actually rolls off bass frequencies). John Hall, the president of Rickenbacker, knows the guitars are quirky, and pretty much refuses to change them. His rationale is, look at all the great records that have been made for decades with Rickenbacker 12 strings just the way they are. We've had this discussion, he and I. Also, if you like Rickenbacker guitars, you simply have to adjust to the inconsistencies, because the payoff is in the looks, sound and vibe they convey. 
    USA Guitarist/Drummer, semi-pro working musician, music journalist, author, radio DJ. 
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  • WezVWezV Frets: 17927
    WezV said:

    It's clear that we can't keep building guitars like they did in 1959.

    How so?
    Environmental factors for the most part.    Material supply is the big issue




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  • ICBMICBM Frets: 76501
    Philly_Q said:

    @ICBM don't you like Rickenbackers, though?  I don't know much about them but it seems to me they've barely changed since the '60s.
    Yes, very much - although they have their own irritations as well, so also not perfect.

    There's no reason you can't like both .

    In fact, my 4001 bass is as close to an unmodified vintage design as any instrument I have, but I've still replaced the pickups with hum-cancelling ones and changed one of the control functions.

    DrumBob said:

    I admit to being one of those guys. I love Rickenbacker guitars, but am the first to admit that they are quirky and imperfect in some ways. On the 12 strings, the necks are too narrow on most models (except for the 660-12), the guitars come stock with a six saddle bridge that negates perfect tuning and intonation, and the control layout is odd. In addition, there's that "small knob" that nobody seems to understand (it actually rolls off bass frequencies). John Hall, the president of Rickenbacker, knows the guitars are quirky, and pretty much refuses to change them. His rationale is, look at all the great records that have been made for decades with Rickenbacker 12 strings just the way they are. We've had this discussion, he and I. Also, if you like Rickenbacker guitars, you simply have to adjust to the inconsistencies, because the payoff is in the looks, sound and vibe they convey. 
    Actually the 5th knob is just an extra reverse volume control for the neck pickup - I find it very useful, especially as I put a treble-pass cap on them. It's the other four controls I find useless! On my bass, I've converted the 'treble tone' control to a bass-cut 'vintage cap' control, and it's really the only one I use much. (And the bass tone rarely.)

    The 6-saddle bridge is fine once it's set up right - although that is a bit of a pain - and the 12-saddle bridge on my 660/12 could get every note perfectly in tune.

    But John Hall does indeed have a very odd attitude to change - there is none when customers want it, but it happens without warning when the company does...

    "Take these three items, some WD-40, a vise grip, and a roll of duct tape. Any man worth his salt can fix almost any problem with this stuff alone." - Walt Kowalski

    "Only two things are infinite - the universe, and human stupidity. And I'm not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein

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  • It’s fine but its no Birdfish…which is also a deconstructed guitar, with sliding, changeable pickups, but also with the ability to play with traditional concepts of ‘tone wood’ and without the encumbrance of a headstock…

    Having said that, a Birdfish is now so expensive as to be unobtainium and I guess the folded tea tray guitar is considerably cheaper.
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  • WezVWezV Frets: 17927
    It’s fine but its no Birdfish…which is also a deconstructed guitar, with sliding, changeable pickups, but also with the ability to play with traditional concepts of ‘tone wood’ and without the encumbrance of a headstock…

    Having said that, a Birdfish is now so expensive as to be unobtainium and I guess the folded tea tray guitar is considerably cheaper.
    and quicker to build by the sounds of it... he reckons he can build them in 3-7 days.
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  • WezV said:
    WezV said:

    It's clear that we can't keep building guitars like they did in 1959.

    How so?
    Environmental factors for the most part.    Material supply is the big issue





    Maybe certain types of wood, but it doesn't seem to be stopping anyone building those types of guitars. 
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  • WezVWezV Frets: 17927
    WezV said:
    WezV said:

    It's clear that we can't keep building guitars like they did in 1959.

    How so?
    Environmental factors for the most part.    Material supply is the big issue





    Maybe certain types of wood, but it doesn't seem to be stopping anyone building those types of guitars. 


    Gibson started laminating stuff in the 70's because of wood supply issues.  They weight relieve most of their standard range these days, they are constantly trying alternative fretboard materials or moving onto different supplies of mahogany.

    For smaller builders like me, good mahogany used to be easy to find.  Its getting harder and harder, and i'm enjoying looking into alternatives.  I can build a few guitars in the 50's style from old stock of mahogany.... if i was doing that to make a living then resources would become a real issue.  Yes people do it, but not everyone can at the rate those materials have been used before


    Its not just wood.


    there are issues with nickel supplies which is having an impact of pickup and hardware availability.

    Nitrocellulose is  not an environmentally friendly product and its use is only going to be come more restricted
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  • WezV said:
    WezV said:
    WezV said:

    It's clear that we can't keep building guitars like they did in 1959.

    How so?
    Environmental factors for the most part.    Material supply is the big issue





    Maybe certain types of wood, but it doesn't seem to be stopping anyone building those types of guitars. 


    Gibson started laminating stuff in the 70's because of wood supply issues.  They weight relieve most of their standard range these days, they are constantly trying alternative fretboard materials or moving onto different supplies of mahogany.

    For smaller builders like me, good mahogany used to be easy to find.  Its getting harder and harder, and i'm enjoying looking into alternatives.  I can build a few guitars in the 50's style from old stock of mahogany.... if i was doing that to make a living then resources would become a real issue.  Yes people do it, but not everyone can at the rate those materials have been used before


    Its not just wood.


    there are issues with nickel supplies which is having an impact of pickup and hardware availability.

    Nitrocellulose is  not an environmentally friendly product and its use is only going to be come more restricted

    I get that but what I mean is LPs and Teles will probably remain more popular than this thing.
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  • carloscarlos Frets: 3842
    Not a useable gigging guitar, but will look nice sitting in the corner of a carefully decorated living room. I'm intrigued about the sounds it can produce with the tweaking of the pickup placement, but expect it to sound like most other electric guitars.
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  • WezVWezV Frets: 17927
    WezV said:
    WezV said:
    WezV said:

    It's clear that we can't keep building guitars like they did in 1959.

    How so?
    Environmental factors for the most part.    Material supply is the big issue





    Maybe certain types of wood, but it doesn't seem to be stopping anyone building those types of guitars. 


    Gibson started laminating stuff in the 70's because of wood supply issues.  They weight relieve most of their standard range these days, they are constantly trying alternative fretboard materials or moving onto different supplies of mahogany.

    For smaller builders like me, good mahogany used to be easy to find.  Its getting harder and harder, and i'm enjoying looking into alternatives.  I can build a few guitars in the 50's style from old stock of mahogany.... if i was doing that to make a living then resources would become a real issue.  Yes people do it, but not everyone can at the rate those materials have been used before


    Its not just wood.


    there are issues with nickel supplies which is having an impact of pickup and hardware availability.

    Nitrocellulose is  not an environmentally friendly product and its use is only going to be come more restricted

    I get that but what I mean is LPs and Teles will probably remain more popular than this thing.
    they most certainly will, but they also need to adapt and change for mass production - which the core lines already have in small ways. 

    50's spec is now an extra you pay a lot more for.
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  • LastMantraLastMantra Frets: 3827
    edited November 2021
    WezV said:
    WezV said:
    WezV said:
    WezV said:

    It's clear that we can't keep building guitars like they did in 1959.

    How so?
    Environmental factors for the most part.    Material supply is the big issue





    Maybe certain types of wood, but it doesn't seem to be stopping anyone building those types of guitars. 


    Gibson started laminating stuff in the 70's because of wood supply issues.  They weight relieve most of their standard range these days, they are constantly trying alternative fretboard materials or moving onto different supplies of mahogany.

    For smaller builders like me, good mahogany used to be easy to find.  Its getting harder and harder, and i'm enjoying looking into alternatives.  I can build a few guitars in the 50's style from old stock of mahogany.... if i was doing that to make a living then resources would become a real issue.  Yes people do it, but not everyone can at the rate those materials have been used before


    Its not just wood.


    there are issues with nickel supplies which is having an impact of pickup and hardware availability.

    Nitrocellulose is  not an environmentally friendly product and its use is only going to be come more restricted

    I get that but what I mean is LPs and Teles will probably remain more popular than this thing.
    they most certainly will, but they also need to adapt and change for mass production - which the core lines already have in small ways.

    Exactly. We are still building guitars designed in the 50s, because they are good.

    Innovation is good  ;)
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  • boogiemanboogieman Frets: 13405
    If these do take off expect a Chinese version for about £30. 
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  • WezVWezV Frets: 17927
    edited November 2021
    WezV said:
    WezV said:
    WezV said:
    WezV said:

    It's clear that we can't keep building guitars like they did in 1959.

    How so?
    Environmental factors for the most part.    Material supply is the big issue





    Maybe certain types of wood, but it doesn't seem to be stopping anyone building those types of guitars. 


    Gibson started laminating stuff in the 70's because of wood supply issues.  They weight relieve most of their standard range these days, they are constantly trying alternative fretboard materials or moving onto different supplies of mahogany.

    For smaller builders like me, good mahogany used to be easy to find.  Its getting harder and harder, and i'm enjoying looking into alternatives.  I can build a few guitars in the 50's style from old stock of mahogany.... if i was doing that to make a living then resources would become a real issue.  Yes people do it, but not everyone can at the rate those materials have been used before


    Its not just wood.


    there are issues with nickel supplies which is having an impact of pickup and hardware availability.

    Nitrocellulose is  not an environmentally friendly product and its use is only going to be come more restricted

    I get that but what I mean is LPs and Teles will probably remain more popular than this thing.
    they most certainly will, but they also need to adapt and change for mass production - which the core lines already have in small ways.

    Exactly. We are still building guitars designed in the 50s, because they are good.

    Innovation is good 
    really not sure where this is going or what your point is fella.

    Most of what I make is kinda vintage inspired, often made with found stocks of old mahogany. I build guitars because I like guitars and i love those 50's designs.  You don't need to try and sell them to me.

    Despite that, I still regularly post about alternative materials and building styles down in making and modding.   I understand we can't carry on the way we have in the past, change is needed.

    The last completed build was very vintage styled, with modern sustainable materials.  That's the avenue I am currently exploring.  I fully support builders who choose to go a different way

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  • WezV said:
    WezV said:
    WezV said:
    WezV said:
    WezV said:

    It's clear that we can't keep building guitars like they did in 1959.

    How so?
    Environmental factors for the most part.    Material supply is the big issue





    Maybe certain types of wood, but it doesn't seem to be stopping anyone building those types of guitars. 


    Gibson started laminating stuff in the 70's because of wood supply issues.  They weight relieve most of their standard range these days, they are constantly trying alternative fretboard materials or moving onto different supplies of mahogany.

    For smaller builders like me, good mahogany used to be easy to find.  Its getting harder and harder, and i'm enjoying looking into alternatives.  I can build a few guitars in the 50's style from old stock of mahogany.... if i was doing that to make a living then resources would become a real issue.  Yes people do it, but not everyone can at the rate those materials have been used before


    Its not just wood.


    there are issues with nickel supplies which is having an impact of pickup and hardware availability.

    Nitrocellulose is  not an environmentally friendly product and its use is only going to be come more restricted

    I get that but what I mean is LPs and Teles will probably remain more popular than this thing.
    they most certainly will, but they also need to adapt and change for mass production - which the core lines already have in small ways.

    Exactly. We are still building guitars designed in the 50s, because they are good.

    Innovation is good 
    really not sure where this is going or what your point is fella.

    Fair do's. I was trying to keep it on topic but it's veering of. 
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  • I love retro stuff, I've two of Scott Cameron's excellent relic paint jobs, and planning a third.. 

    Out of 9 guitars all but one are early designs (albeit copies due to being a south-paw and really picky).

    But I think the points about Leo Fender looking forward and the changing environmental demands (increased responsibility), not to mention 70 years of tweaks and improvements and massive advancements in manufacture.

    One of the biggest points raised by professional musicians a lot is weight - Derek Trucks saying "a lot of these vintage guitars that are box-fresh got put under the bed in the case because they're too heavy", it was one of the reasons Townsend hunted SGs and Clapton Les Pauls in the late 60s... which people believe sparked the whole old-guitar market.

    So this guitar is lighter and perceived as flimsier (I say perceived as none of us have held one) - so there may be a perception among guitarists to address quite aside from the visual aesthetics 


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  • khaotickhaotic Frets: 120
    There was a piece on it in Guitar comic, last month. Available on their website here: https://guitar.com/features/interviews/verso-instruments-cosmo-robin-stummvoll/

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  • WezVWezV Frets: 17927
    They've just released a second model.  This tiem with  bit more wood for the traditionalists ;)

    It's made to allow the top with magnetically mounted pickups to flex away from the strings.   Either  for a properly named natural tremolo, or controlling other things



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  • OilCityPickupsOilCityPickups Frets: 13420
    tFB Trader
    It feels more like it's trying to be different than trying to be better. 
    This - it's fecking horrible - like some over designed bit of hipster décor. It's the very opposite of the claim ... not simple at all - like a bit of tin origami. Blurgggggg  
    Professional pickup winder, horse-testpilot and recovering Chocolate Hobnob addict.
    Formerly TheGuitarWeasel ... Oil City Pickups  ... Oil City Blog 7 String.org profile and message  

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  • ICBMICBM Frets: 76501
    I like the overall look, but there are a lot of details I don’t.

    "Take these three items, some WD-40, a vise grip, and a roll of duct tape. Any man worth his salt can fix almost any problem with this stuff alone." - Walt Kowalski

    "Only two things are infinite - the universe, and human stupidity. And I'm not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein

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  • OffsetOffset Frets: 15685
    edited January 14
    It feels more like it's trying to be different than trying to be better. 
    This - it's fecking horrible - like some over designed bit of hipster décor. It's the very opposite of the claim ... not simple at all - like a bit of tin origami. Blurgggggg  
    I appreciate the attempt to do something different.  But when 'different' equates to 'absolutely hideous', well...

    On this upside, it's going to be one of those rare guitars where your audience will definitely notice what you're playing - but not in a good way.
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