Is made in America

maltingsaudio

Still the benchmark for guitars?

Inspired by this thread https://www.thefretboard.co.uk/discussion/218046/if-you-were-starting-again#latest

Strangefan

Not for me it's not,  UK, Japanese, or Korean for me, the USA only is a very old way of thinking 

dazzajl

No and hasn’t been for decades. 

You have to congratulate both Fender and Gibson for managing to perpetuate this myth though. There is no other sector of manufacturing where American built is remotely sought after. 

Tannin

Was it ever the benchmark? It certainly hasn't been the benchmark for a very, very long time. There are truly wonderful guitars  made in (from east to west) Canada, the USA, Spain, the UK, Germany, South Africa, Australia, and Japan. And those are only the ones I happen to know about. I'm sure that there are others in the top drawer. 

American guitars can be excellent, but they tend to be overpriced and under-engineered. Their huge home market is both a blessing and a curse: it gives them lots of rusted-on buyers, but also encourages hubris and a reluctance to innovate. They  tend to be absolutely convinced that American-made is the best in the world, and it isn't. Sometimes it isn't even close. 

Philly_Q

The vast majority of the guitars I own (and have owned) are American, but I certainly wouldn't suggest the USA makes "the best" guitars - I just happen to like Fender, Gibson and PRS and yes, the traditional shapes are stuck in my head and "look right".

I know there are loads of great guitars made in other parts of the world but there are always factors which put me off, largely aesthetics but other details as well.

And there are several small-scale builders in the UK whose guitars appeal to me a lot, but they are all expensive, and I'm not sure I'm comfortable spending that kind of money.

TheMarlin

It really makes no difference which country the CNC machine is located in. 

My Eastman T64v was made in Beijing. It’s a flippin’ awesome guitar, just oozes quality, unlike a few USA Gibsons I’ve owned. 

DavidR

Many American guitars are very good but so are many other guitars from - well - all over the world now really. As has been mentioned.

In the UK at least this perception of American guitars might date back to the 1950's and 60's when US instruments were rare, expensive and viewed as "imports". A bit of a luxury. At the time German brands like Hofner were very popular because a. available and b. cheaper. LP's were the same. Even in the 1970's I was paying a premium for imported US Blues and Ragtime records and sheet music.

When did this stop being true for guitars? 1980's onwards really. At the same time some US firms like Gibson were going through a bit of a purple patch too. By then countries like Japan were not only importing excellent cars but very decent guitars! Other countries soon caught on. Slowly the perception changed, and still is.

Now if you concentrate too much on US-only you will seriously miss out. Certainly if you compiled a table of cost vs. quality, the US would not be at the top. Probably that would be China.

When people decide what they want though, other factors come in to play. Guitar buying, like car buying, is emotional.

Tannin

I agree fully, DavidR, except for this bit:

DavidR said:

Certainly if you compiled a table of cost vs. quality, the US would not be at the top. Probably that would be China.
.

One of the many factors that add up to "quality" is the ethical dimension. When you buy a guitar from (say) Germany or the USA, you have at least a reasonable chance of knowing where the timbers were sourced and how sustainable and responsible that resource use is. Different companies vary (for example, in the US, Taylor has a much better record than Gibson) but chances are, if the guitar has come from one of the countries I mentioned in my earlier post, it is made of legally logged timber, and quite possibly responsibly logged. Illegal logging, according to Interpol, accounts for between 15% and 30% of all timber used today, and China is by far the biggest importer of illegally logged timber products. It is not always easy to know how genuine the claims a company in Canada or France makes about honest dealing and environmental responsibility, with Chinese products, it pretty much impossible. If it is made from illegally clearfelled timber, I don't care what it sounds like, it is not a quality product.

stickyfiddle

I'd say it's often an indicator of quality, not because American-made inherently implies better quality, but because we know that historically that's where the best guitars came from. 

But outside the USA I don't think you'll find many people obsessed with USA-made as a badge of honour in itself. 

Musicwolf

A large corporation, such as Fender, can produce guitars ranging from the entry level Squires to the Master Built Custom Shop models.  They choose to build the high end stuff in North America for economic reasons.  They already own their American factories, have a trained workforce and require an American presence to maintain brand identity but their costs are higher than in China or Korea and so they focus their efforts on the high end stuff to offset their high labour cost.

Creed_Clicks

European made are pretty good these days 

Sassafras

There was a time when Tokai were seen as better than USA made.

sev112

Creed_Clicks said:

European made are pretty good these days 

There’s a Croatian I think acoustic maker I’ve seen either on here or YouTube or somewhere that is making fabulous looking hand made guitars at great value.  Must be others

Tannin

You might be thinking of Kremona from Bulgaria, Sev112. They are mainly classical makers but do some steel string guitars too. Said to be very good. And then there is Furch from the Czech Republic (a name which speaks for itself) not to mention BSG. In Germany, Lakewood make lovely instruments. I only ever hear nice things about Atkin and Brook in the UK, and there are some great guitars come out of Ireland too. And I haven't even mentioned the place where they invented the modern guitar, and still make many of the very best ones, Spain.

(I don't own a single European-made instrument, though I did have a cheap and not half bad Italian 12-string several decades ago. One of these days I'll fix that. Maybe a Stoll or a Lakewood.

DavidR

Tannin said:

I agree fully, DavidR, except for this bit:

DavidR said:

Certainly if you compiled a table of cost vs. quality, the US would not be at the top. Probably that would be China.
.

One of the many factors that add up to "quality" is the ethical dimension. When you buy a guitar from (say) Germany or the USA, you have at least a reasonable chance of knowing where the timbers were sourced and how sustainable and responsible that resource use is. Different companies vary (for example, in the US, Taylor has a much better record than Gibson) but chances are, if the guitar has come from one of the countries I mentioned in my earlier post, it is made of legally logged timber, and quite possibly responsibly logged. Illegal logging, according to Interpol, accounts for between 15% and 30% of all timber used today, and China is by far the biggest importer of illegally logged timber products. It is not always easy to know how genuine the claims a company in Canada or France makes about honest dealing and environmental responsibility, with Chinese products, it pretty much impossible. If it is made from illegally clearfelled timber, I don't care what it sounds like, it is not a quality product.

Hadn't realised that about the ethics of their sourcing Tannin. That should influence people I agree +++. My own view is that we should be exploring ethical sustainable timbers in guitar production. Exactly as Taylor are doing with their Urban Ash and other initiatives. And we need to move away from our Mahogany/Ebony obsession - like Lowden tries to for example. There are literally hundreds of appropriate woods in the natural world which could be used. Running out of the suitable large specimen trees in vulnerable forests should be the driver. Also knowing when CITES rules and laws are being broken is a must. That's assuming we even want to continue with wood (probably we will) and explore other materials.

Must research the ethics of Chinese sourcing. 

GoldenEraGuitars

Perhaps when it came to scaling up an operation (fender did this better than Gibson imo) but as for build quality? No. “Made in USA” really only means anything to those in the States who “buy American”.

From what I’ve seen, Korea and Indonesia make outstanding guitars these days although Japan has always been miles ahead of all of them. 

bertie

Tannin said:

You might be thinking of Kremona from Bulgaria, Sev112. They are mainly classical makers but do some steel string guitars too. Said to be very good. And then there is Furch from the Czech Republic (a name which speaks for itself) not to mention BSG. In Germany, Lakewood make lovely instruments. I only ever hear nice things about Atkin and Brook in the UK, and there are some great guitars come out of Ireland too. And I haven't even mentioned the place where they invented the modern guitar, and still make many of the very best ones, Spain.

(I don't own a single European-made instrument, though I did have a cheap and not half bad Italian 12-string several decades ago. One of these days I'll fix that. Maybe a Stoll or a Lakewood.

I hasez a Brook and a Furch  -   and I knowsez the guys at Brook, Simon is a mate.  Their workshop is pretty much in hobbit land and if a tree falls on their land, they'll try and re-use the timber in the instruments 

tekbow

Nope, for me personally, the Japanese are top of the tree.

America seems to have created a mythos though.

Now for individual production, there are US manufacturers that can manage japanese build, fit and finish, but a much higher price point.

Excluding ESP. If you want ESP on the headstock these days, new, prepare to sell a kidney.

rossi

Its important to some  .As a pure musical instrument its long gone but guitars are never  just about playing an instrument .American guitars apart from PRS still have Mojo .A bit like muscle cars ..

tanihhiavlt

Another vote for Japan, 

Fujigen and Matsumoku make consistently excellent guitars

guitarfishbay

The skill of learning how to make an instrument could be learned anywhere.  Whether a brand builds to a certain price point or quality standard is a different issue, and of course there are ethical considerations as well as already noted