1Q22 Challenge Cano LP DC Kit Guitar Build

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  • CanoCano Frets: 21
    edited January 2022
    I'll do the whole neck, I have a Squier that needs new frets so will learn on that including how to repair tear out chips. Rosewood sawdust and superglue at the ready.

    Update, no turning back now.




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  • CanoCano Frets: 21
    I'm not going to pretend that I'm happy with my work here. Even though I worked slowly and made sure to let the tool do the lifting and not to pull on the frets AT ALL, I've got chips all over the place :(

    Significantly worse than the aging Squier that I removed frets from previously, so a bit unhappy right now.

    I can see I've got a tedious job ahead with glue, chips and rosewood dust. What glue is recommended for this as I understand I need thin glue (but which and where from) and a way to apply very small measured amounts. 

    I have some teflon sheet, to use as a fret dam (copied from the Stew Mac product) and wax to keep the glue from unwanted areas but appreciate any advice before I do anything more. Currently I'm not planning to do anything more this weekend, just think of ways to ruin the body instead :(


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  • WezVWezV Frets: 16542
    Thats all recoverable at this point, a few more chips than ideal  but far from ruined.  

    You can buy proper thin super glue, it's dangerous stuff as it moves a lot quicker than you expect... think it's thinner than water.   You may also find some cheap bottles are actually medium thin, Wilkos cheap one tends to be and works well for this.

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  • CanoCano Frets: 21
    I'll look at the Wilko stuff. Is it this one?

    What would be process be for gluing the loose chips back, how to clamp them safely once the glue is applied?
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  • andy_kandy_k Frets: 818
    My mother went to Poundland ( I think ) and bought a pack of 3 bottles of thin superglue, came with extra nozzles, and the bottles are clear and show quite a lot of content.
    It might pay to have a look, as the tubes, like you show, are notorious for not having a lot of stuff in there, and when you go to re open them, they are solid.
    Another useful thing, is a can of spray accelerator, which helps to get the stuff dry quickly.
    If I was on your position, I would first get the new frets prepared, and stuck in ( how are you doing this? ), obviously, make sure the truss rod works, and get the neck flat.
    I'm guessing you will be getting a bit frustrated, and may not have all the tools needed at this point, board needs levelling, frets need cutting, nipping and bending to radius, then you need to either hammer them in ( with the right hammer ) or press them in ( with the right press ).
    At this point, I suggest you go and watch a couple of vids on re-frets, Crimson did a pretty good one recently, and he covers the correct way to get them installed with glue.
    Superglue is good for small jobs, but can be a nightmare if you get carried away with it.
    Full fret jobs might be better done with Titebond, which allows a wet cleanup, and is a bit more forgiving to work with.
    Don't worry about the chips, these can be easily fixed with dust and glue after frets are installed, if you do it first you would need a decent fret saw to re cut the slots, and you can't easily do that with a bound neck.
    Now you are at ground zero, so to speak, it would be best to check the board is in a good position to have frets installed, if it isn't perfectly flat, the deviations will have to be taken out when you do a level and crown / polish, so do as much research now.
    The recent Kinkade acoustic build also showed a nice neat fret job, so that is worth a watch.
    For full disclosure, I haven't even done one myself, but have seen enough videos to know how patiently they need to be approached.
    Remember, this is not a race, the year is young.
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  • WezVWezV Frets: 16542
    edited January 2022
    Go for bottles, not tubes.  And fix the slots first, but yeah, you may have to re saw some
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  • CanoCano Frets: 21
    Thanks guys - this will be the All Qs 22 Challenge for me rather than racing for 1st April :lol: 

    Frets I'll order pre-cut and radiused from Feline Guitars. I have a fret cutter and a 35 degree edge file, fret hammer but I don't have anything specific for nipping the ends of the tangs for the bound board. It may be a silly question, but would a wire cutter and some needle files be up to the job?

    I also have a 12 inch radius sanding block, so once I've checked the truss rod and set it 100% flat (and cleaned the fret slots, I have the hosco slot cleaning saw) I'll give a few passes with that and see if there are any other areas of concern.

    Thanks for the tip to leave the chip repairs until after the new frets are in. I guess they also give a good route for the glue to get into the fret slots too.
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  • WezVWezV Frets: 16542
    Yeah  you can use cutter and files to trim the tang, just takes a lot longer.
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  • CanoCano Frets: 21
    I have time :smirk: I note that you (WezV) say fix the slots first and andy_k said fix them after getting the new frets in. My instinct is to fix them first before installing new frets.

    At some point this week I'll do a practice run on the other neck I have here, best get the mistakes out of the way on a £40 old squier than on the new build.
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  • WezVWezV Frets: 16542
    Yeah, I like to get the board into good condition before adding frets.

    I have a little stew mac slot cleaning saw that helps restore the slots on a bound neck.
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  • CanoCano Frets: 21
    I have this one 

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  • andy_kandy_k Frets: 818
    My suggestion is to fill holes after frets are in, if you try sticking down the loose chips you will then need to clean slots.
    With a lot of chips like you have, it could take a while, I would push them into place when the frets go in and flood with glue-either titebond ( easier to work with ) or superglue, (nightmare if you stick your fingers to the board )
    Sounds like you have most of the gear to get the job done anyway.
    When you cut back the tangs, don't go too tight to the binding, might create a different problem later.
    Re- filling, I would save as much fine dust as possible, and use a 2 part epoxy to mix up a filler, which can be mixed with hardener and applied with a flat filling tool after frets are in, this will all be sanded smooth during the final steps.
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  • WezVWezV Frets: 16542
    That saw will be perfect.
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  • CanoCano Frets: 21
    Perfect. I have a small block of rosewood too just to rasp off some sawdust. 
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  • WezVWezV Frets: 16542
    @andy_k ;  don't take this the wrong way but I've never seen anyone suggest to fix the chips after fretting before.

    I'm sure it can be done that way, but it definitely seems like the long way round to me, and will be harder to get good results.


       Having to individually clean a very hard epoxy/dust mix from the side of every fret will be a proper ball ache.  It will be very difficult to do it consistently enough to look good.  You also haven't resolved the damage to the slot.

    The superglue and dust trick works great.  You pack the dust in and touch it with a drop of glue.  Once done  you can sand the whole board along the grain so cleanup is easy, and the board, and more importantly the slots,  are like new before the frets go in.

    I would avoid the use of accelerator  on a bare wood surface as it can leave white residue where you don't want it.  I've known it ro highlight a fill before with a little white halo.
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  • CanoCano Frets: 21
    @WezV Your method is the one that StewMac show in their videos, so as I have that guide on Youtube too, it's my preferred method.
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  • andy_kandy_k Frets: 818
    @WezV , as I previously stated, it is not a job  have done personally, and I always defer to greater knowledge and experience.
    I have seen a few vids on the subject, and it is always done slightly differently-depending on the luthier and the job in hand.
    We are talking about a few different processes here, and I am trying to help get to a balanced approach on this board, there are a lot of chips of varying size, some are attached, some are voids.
    My own approach, would be to avoid any glue in the slots until the frets are installed, just to have a raw surface for the fret to go into. 
    I would expect capillary action to draw the glue on the fret install into the chips that are still attached, I think I saw this talked about on one of Crimson's vids, and as a seperate process, after frets are set, a 2 part, coloured epoxy could be used on the larger voids, obviously scraped back to minimise sanding.
    This will be done in a number of passes, eventually filling all the obvious chips, and probably a fair bit of the actual grain.
    The board would be finally sanded completely, up to around 400, and finished off with some version of oil for the final finish.
    It would be easy on this job, with so many chips of various sizes, to attempt to get a lot done in one go, but better results will be achieved with a slow and patient approach, and a variety of filling and fixing, this will have the benefit of not looking like a single colour has been used, and fillers can be matched to different shades of the board.
    Your suggestion of doing all the filling and sanding before fretting is also appropriate, but will need a good clean up of fret slots, it is really personal preference which method is done, either way, it's a pretty big job for a first attempt.

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  • WezVWezV Frets: 16542
    edited January 2022
    There are obviously many ways to skin a cat, but I don't think your advice is sound.  It's not a matter of patience, it's a matter of  chosing an order that will give the most consistent results

    I have had to fill voids on boards before that needed to be done with a method like the one you suggest,  I've even inlaid between frets...and done at least 100 fretjobs now.    Mine is a preference based on hands on experience. 

    Belive me when I say it's a much easier job if you sort the board and slots first.   Easier to get good results too.

    Capillary action does help glue get where its going, but thin glue that works with won't fill voids

    I wouldn't stop sanding a board at 400g unless it's being sprayed.  I go up with micromesh to 12000g on mine, but wouldn't recommend less than 1000g... all easier to do consistently before it's fretted.   

    You need to be an expert with a scraper to stand a chance of evenly scraping a board with epoxy lumps between each fret and have it looking consistent at the end.  I know from helping few learners most don't have this skill yet. 

    A single colour fill won't matter with these chips on a rosewood board.  You honestly won't see it.  If they were bigger I would fill with actual colour matched wood, but they are not that bad

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  • andy_kandy_k Frets: 818
    As I said, I defer to knowledge and experience, and also note, the board looks probably a lot worse than it is in these photos, most of the damage will be covered by the new frets.
    Just to clarify, I wasn't suggesting the glue used to glue frets would fill voids, and my suggestion for actually filling voids would not leave epoxy lumps, the board would be left flat.
    I have seen advice that states it is not worth going above 400 on wood, but that is obviously species dependant.
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  • WezVWezV Frets: 16542
    edited January 2022
    The problem with trying  to level the fill before it's cured/dry is it can continue to sink in, whether it's soaking into wood a bit, or shrinking as it cures, or has bubbles that can come to the surface.   You generally need to fill slightly proud so you can level the fill off afterwards.

    It's totally worth going past 400g on wood that's left unfinished or simply oiled... Things like rosewood and ebony will polish up really nicely and feel great. You don't need to go past 400g on anything you are putting lacquer on.
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