How do you see the fretboard when playing?

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  • HAL9000HAL9000 Frets: 9552
    A couple of things - I see shapes/boxes but try not to be limited by them. I also see chord shapes so know where the roots, thirds, and fifths are.
    I play guitar because I enjoy it rather than because I’m any good at it
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  • guitarjack66guitarjack66 Frets: 1798
    HAL9000 said:
    A couple of things - I see shapes/boxes but try not to be limited by them. I also see chord shapes so know where the roots, thirds, and fifths are.
    I am more of a 'get the answer' then work out the method type of person. So remembering the shapes then prompts me to find out and remember where those roots,thirds and fifths are. I am a bit like this in general life. I like to know the answer so I can then work out how I need to get there.
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  • Devil#20Devil#20 Frets: 1910
    I manage to hit all the right notes but not necessarily in the right order. 

    Ian

    Lowering my expectations has succeeded beyond my wildest dreams.

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  • Devil#20Devil#20 Frets: 1910
    edited March 2022
    Chords and intervals connected by this:
    ...
    ---ef-g-- \ 2 lots of -xx-x-
    ---bC-d-- /
    --f-g-a-  \
    --C-d-e-  | 3 lots of -x-x-x-
    --g-a-b-  /
    --d-ef--  \ 2 lots of -x-xx-
    --a-bC--  /
    --ef-g--  \ 2 lots of -xx-x-
    --bC-d--  /
    -f-g-a--  \
    -C-d-e--  | 3 lots of -x-x-x-
    -g-a-b--  /
    ...

    Well, that's what it would look like on an infinite fretboard tuned in 4ths...obviously, in the real world, you have to step around the G-B string transitions 

    I only partially understand that. The forward/backward and vertical slashes represent brackets. However, what do varying number of leading and trailing dashes mean? You seem to think of patterns from high e to low e. I think of them from the low e to high e. I learned the E and A strings first because it was easier to transpose barre chords sooner. 

    Ian

    Lowering my expectations has succeeded beyond my wildest dreams.

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  • Devil#20 said:
    Chords and intervals connected by this:
    ...
    ---ef-g-- \ 2 lots of -xx-x-
    ---bC-d-- /
    --f-g-a-  \
    --C-d-e-  | 3 lots of -x-x-x-
    --g-a-b-  /
    --d-ef--  \ 2 lots of -x-xx-
    --a-bC--  /
    --ef-g--  \ 2 lots of -xx-x-
    --bC-d--  /
    -f-g-a--  \
    -C-d-e--  | 3 lots of -x-x-x-
    -g-a-b--  /
    ...

    Well, that's what it would look like on an infinite fretboard tuned in 4ths...obviously, in the real world, you have to step around the G-B string transitions 

    I only partially understand that. The forward/backward and vertical slashes represent brackets. However, what do varying number of leading and trailing dashes mean? You seem to think of patterns from high e to low e. I think of them from the low e to high e. I learned the E and A strings first because it was easier to transpose barre chords sooner. 
    @Devil#20 ;Yeah, I couldn't think of a better way to illustrate it in text ;-/

    That's right: I've tried to group the lines to show the three distinct patterns and that they repeat.

    Because it's kind of conceptual, the dashes/letters just show a region of a virtual fretboard (tuned in 4ths)...I've only put letters in to show where the patterns come from (there aren't any string names but the lower pitches are at the bottom). It's not a map of the fretboard...more a visualisation tool.

    An example: if I was playing a standard guitar in the key of C and my first finger was on the 2nd fret of the A-string, I'd be starting on an -xx-x- pattern...I know what's above and below...or I could shift along one fret and be on the middle line of an -x-x-x- pattern, etc.

    Christ...I hope that makes sense to someone other than me ;)
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  • vizviz Frets: 10647
    Very interesting answers so far,thank you all. 
    I am quite good with notes on the fretboard as I have some mnemonics and patterns for the octaves that help. I also know scales going up and down strings but not across as well. I am not sure how we classify vertical and horizontal on the fretboard but I have no problem going per string but still struggle in the way we do pentatonics,across as I call it.
    Would you call it linear going across 
    I think transverse / transversally is a good word for going across; linear to me means going up and down a single string. 
    Roland said: Scales are primarily a tool for categorising knowledge, not a rule for what can or cannot be played.
    Supportact said: [my style is] probably more an accumulation of limitations and bad habits than a 'style'.
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  • LewyLewy Frets: 4127
    I think I see the top 4 strings as basically CAGED and the bottom 2 as just the notes that are on them. 
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  • guitarjack66guitarjack66 Frets: 1798
    Devil#20 said:
    Chords and intervals connected by this:
    ...
    ---ef-g-- \ 2 lots of -xx-x-
    ---bC-d-- /
    --f-g-a-  \
    --C-d-e-  | 3 lots of -x-x-x-
    --g-a-b-  /
    --d-ef--  \ 2 lots of -x-xx-
    --a-bC--  /
    --ef-g--  \ 2 lots of -xx-x-
    --bC-d--  /
    -f-g-a--  \
    -C-d-e--  | 3 lots of -x-x-x-
    -g-a-b--  /
    ...

    Well, that's what it would look like on an infinite fretboard tuned in 4ths...obviously, in the real world, you have to step around the G-B string transitions 

    I only partially understand that. The forward/backward and vertical slashes represent brackets. However, what do varying number of leading and trailing dashes mean? You seem to think of patterns from high e to low e. I think of them from the low e to high e. I learned the E and A strings first because it was easier to transpose barre chords sooner. 
    I have taken to barre chords pretty well in the same way due to my guitar teacher introducing me to the E and A shaped barres first. This is extremely helpful,but I still seem to find shapes and triads stick in my head quicker. Learning those barre chords has also introduced me to a lot of those triads as some are simply shortened versions of those full barres.
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  • dazzer22dazzer22 Frets: 44
    Its funny when i think about it if i am learning a song or a scale  i might look at the fret board as notes and intervals , But when i am actually playing a song or improvising  I don't focus on the fretboard that much , also when playing  fast solo  runs who the hell would have time to take in the sights of the fret board and notes .
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  • BellycasterBellycaster Frets: 5834
    No idea, I'm usually pissed!























    Only Joking! =)


    Serious answer is that I see "Root Notes" or "Chord Shapes" in various guises. Sometimes I see a sliding scale on one String.

    Sometimes I see "dots" to give me reference, the reference to the old Position 1 of any key and just take it from there.

    It's funny but after years of playing, sometimes you just seem to land on the right note without looking. Fucker of a journey though..........................................and the journey continues!
    Only a Fool Would Say That.
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  • DominicDominic Frets: 16014
    I tend to 'see' it the same way Stevie Wonder does on the piano
    That's fine but I tend to 'hear' it the same way as Beethoven did !
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  • wizbit81wizbit81 Frets: 443
    Shapes, intervals, note names, dots, all of those at various moments and tempos. Most important....intervals.
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  • Danny1969 said:
    I don't see it in shapes, I never did as a kid when learning guitar. Because there was no tab, no cage system or nothing to tell you where the notes were you had to use your brain and it's actually a far quicker method of learning the fretboard. To the extent I don't remember really spending much time learning it. A few weeks at best and I got it straight away because I could see the math. 

    So I knew the names of the open strings ... that's the beginning 

    Next I realised starting on the top E string  the 7th fret is an octave of the string before it. Except the B string, it's 8th fret. 

    The 12th fret is the octave, that was obvious 

    Then I applied this simple rule, all notes have sharps except B and E and so just filled in the gaps. 

    That's how I teach it to my students and most of them grasp it within a couple of weeks. I firmly believe you can over complicate things in an effort to make learning easier when really it just takes a bit of common sense. 


    CAGED has always been there, it is not a modern invention, it is simply a  translation of how the guitar is naturally mapped out.


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  • guitarjack66guitarjack66 Frets: 1798
    Danny1969 said:
    I don't see it in shapes, I never did as a kid when learning guitar. Because there was no tab, no cage system or nothing to tell you where the notes were you had to use your brain and it's actually a far quicker method of learning the fretboard. To the extent I don't remember really spending much time learning it. A few weeks at best and I got it straight away because I could see the math. 

    So I knew the names of the open strings ... that's the beginning 

    Next I realised starting on the top E string  the 7th fret is an octave of the string before it. Except the B string, it's 8th fret. 

    The 12th fret is the octave, that was obvious 

    Then I applied this simple rule, all notes have sharps except B and E and so just filled in the gaps. 

    That's how I teach it to my students and most of them grasp it within a couple of weeks. I firmly believe you can over complicate things in an effort to make learning easier when really it just takes a bit of common sense. 


    You've missed the 's' from the end of 'Maths.'
    Down with this sort of thing.
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  • BarneyBarney Frets: 614
    It just depends for me...iff it's like one key I don't really think about anything apart from melody and would move down or across the neck without much thought ....for key changes in tunes like maybe jazz type of thing ...I still try and think melody first but also arpeggios to follow the chord changes.   or triads..so that would take more thought...


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  • guitarjack66guitarjack66 Frets: 1798
    Barney said:
    It just depends for me...iff it's like one key I don't really think about anything apart from melody and would move down or across the neck without much thought ....for key changes in tunes like maybe jazz type of thing ...I still try and think melody first but also arpeggios to follow the chord changes.   or triads..so that would take more thought...


    Could you expand on the 'melody' part? How do you explain 'melody?' It's just something I don't quite get yet.
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  • Danny1969Danny1969 Frets: 10357
    Funny this thread should pop back up as had a perfect example recently of how quickly the fretboard can be mastered if you learn where the notes are and know the theory of building basic arpeggios. 
    I've been teaching this kid for 3 years. He's just turned 15.  He's been playing for 4 years but knew no theory or how to more easily bend properly etc. So he wanted to go his GCSE early so needed 2 pieces of music for the performance and compilation. He came with a great piece he wrote himself but had to pick a song form a list for the performance piece. These songs have a number rating which denotes how hard they are. This one, Sultans of Swing was rated 9 along with Eruption and some dream theatre stuff so he picked this. It was the first piece he's ever played with his fingers, normally we do hybrid picking but used fingers to get a more Knopfler sound

     There was 2 and a half weeks for him to learn the tune, the main structure is pretty simple but there's a lot of fills to remember as well as the solo's. However if you analyse it then literally every lick is built round an arpeggio of whatever chord it's sitting on. So he's not remember fret numbers, he's see'ing the chords all over the neck



    I think this song is a fantastic example of how to see the neck, certainly how I see it and teach it anyway. 
    www.2020studios.co.uk 
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  • BarneyBarney Frets: 614
    Barney said:
    It just depends for me...iff it's like one key I don't really think about anything apart from melody and would move down or across the neck without much thought ....for key changes in tunes like maybe jazz type of thing ...I still try and think melody first but also arpeggios to follow the chord changes.   or triads..so that would take more thought...


    Could you expand on the 'melody' part? How do you explain 'melody?' It's just something I don't quite get yet.
    Just really playing what is in your head ...A tune that makes sense even iff it's just to yourself ..  so just playing it as you think it ....I wouldn't visualise scales or anything when doing that just play the notes ...I have learned the scales ect ..so probably using them without thinking about it ...
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  • guitarjack66guitarjack66 Frets: 1798
    Barney said:
    Barney said:
    It just depends for me...iff it's like one key I don't really think about anything apart from melody and would move down or across the neck without much thought ....for key changes in tunes like maybe jazz type of thing ...I still try and think melody first but also arpeggios to follow the chord changes.   or triads..so that would take more thought...


    Could you expand on the 'melody' part? How do you explain 'melody?' It's just something I don't quite get yet.
    Just really playing what is in your head ...A tune that makes sense even iff it's just to yourself ..  so just playing it as you think it ....I wouldn't visualise scales or anything when doing that just play the notes ...I have learned the scales ect ..so probably using them without thinking about it ...
    Thanks. Scales are something I certainly need to work on a bit more. I understand the principle pretty well,pentatonic being five notes from the key,and skipping certain intervals or flattening,sharpening or adding notes depending on which scale it is but I just dont necessarily see all the notes/scale steps yet. Part of the problem for me is my fingers keep getting mixed up because its often a big stretch to go from '1 to 4' in the patterns,while the '1 to 3' steps are easier. I sort of learn by putting the cart before the horse as its just my style.
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  • BarneyBarney Frets: 614
    Barney said:
    Barney said:
    It just depends for me...iff it's like one key I don't really think about anything apart from melody and would move down or across the neck without much thought ....for key changes in tunes like maybe jazz type of thing ...I still try and think melody first but also arpeggios to follow the chord changes.   or triads..so that would take more thought...


    Could you expand on the 'melody' part? How do you explain 'melody?' It's just something I don't quite get yet.
    Just really playing what is in your head ...A tune that makes sense even iff it's just to yourself ..  so just playing it as you think it ....I wouldn't visualise scales or anything when doing that just play the notes ...I have learned the scales ect ..so probably using them without thinking about it ...
    Thanks. Scales are something I certainly need to work on a bit more. I understand the principle pretty well,pentatonic being five notes from the key,and skipping certain intervals or flattening,sharpening or adding notes depending on which scale it is but I just dont necessarily see all the notes/scale steps yet. Part of the problem for me is my fingers keep getting mixed up because its often a big stretch to go from '1 to 4' in the patterns,while the '1 to 3' steps are easier. I sort of learn by putting the cart before the horse as its just my style.
    Yeah they are important to learn ...I think a good thing to do is once you have learned them step by step as you would play a scale ....is to stop doing it and start messing picking random notes skipping strings ect ...just random ...it might not be very musical but will help to get out of just the scale type way of playing cos a lot of music isn't like that. ..it also helps visualise the notes instead of just using muscle memory 
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