On stage lyrics

TheBigDipper

A little less of the old sanctimonious might be helpful to get this back on point for the OP...

I'm playing acoustic guitar and singing with my mate who plays assorted other acoustic instruments (guitar, mando, harmonica). We're not being paid to be the entertainment - it's open mics and we're not putting ourselves out there as "an act". We do it for fun. so anyone sneering at me for using a prop when they're watching us play can go and do one. 

I use OnSong on an iPad to remember lyrics and chords. When I'm playing my own stuff, I don't need it, but for covers, I often do. For songs I've played for years, of course not, but something we've just knocked up for fun and might only play a couple of times before moving on to something else, no - I need prompts.

It stores all of my music notation - chords charts, lyrics, tabs and scores on staves. I no longer have notebooks full of this stuff, just the iPad (and backups). You can scroll up/down/next/previous using a bluetooth footswitch. You can get it to autoscroll roughly in time with your playing. I've got mine on an attachment that fits onto a mic stand.

HAL9000

I’m in the ‘learn the words’ camp. However… I will occasionally, with songs I’m not overly familiar with, write down the odd line (not the whole song) as a memory jogger and put it on the floor where the audience can’t easily see it.

PolarityMan

I'd say learn the words too bit on the other hand I've seen you tube videos where surprisingly big artists are using teleprompters so.....

poopot

Not being “ sanctimonious” in the slightest…

if you don’t know the lyrics to a song, whether that’s your own original composition or a cover of someone else’s song… you don’t really know the song… you can’t possibly know the melody and you won’t be singing in anything close to “in tune”…

have to admit, this is a personal bug bear of mine… us lowly guitarists, bass players and drummers etc get short change if we don’t know the songs!… We take the time out to commit what we have to play to memory… and contrary to what @rolamd said, a lot of musical parts (and especially drum patterns) are far more complex than remembering a few words…

as musicians does it not piss you off when a vocalist swans in and doesn’t know the words to a song? Seriously?…

from a crowd perspective there’s nothing worse than a massive black music stand front and center or an iPad lighting up the crutch of the lazy singist!…

as for big names using autocues… they are putting on shows that cost 100’s of thousands… a bit of back up doesn’t hurt… besides, most of the “names” mentioned so far are over 60 and spent most of their lives off their nuts, surprised they can tie their own shoes tbh

ive sat this morning watching sing2 with the littleuns… they’ve seen it a couple of times… they know all the words!…

If two little kids can learn the lyrics so can a grown up man or woman!….

Trude

I rely heavily on OnSong for covers gigs, but that's as much for song-specific Bluetooth MIDI patch changes as lyrics (keeps the flow going without needing to tapdance on my guitar, vocal and synth pedals between songs).
I do worry that this makes me rely too much on the iPad for lyrics, but it does allow us to get new songs into the set with very little rehearsal time (zero in some cases). I'm also depping for other bands and there wouldn't be enough hours in the day to learn everything perfectly.

RocknRollDave

Trude said:

I rely heavily on OnSong for covers gigs, but that's as much for song-specific Bluetooth MIDI patch changes as lyrics (keeps the flow going without needing to tapdance on my guitar, vocal and synth pedals between songs).
I do worry that this makes me rely too much on the iPad for lyrics, but it does allow us to get new songs into the set with very little rehearsal time (zero in some cases). I'm also depping for other bands and there wouldn't be enough hours in the day to learn everything perfectly.

Sorry, mate, as you can see from posts above, you’re expected to rehearse every song and know it inside out before every gig. No excuses.

poopot

RocknRollDave said:

Trude said:

I rely heavily on OnSong for covers gigs, but that's as much for song-specific Bluetooth MIDI patch changes as lyrics (keeps the flow going without needing to tapdance on my guitar, vocal and synth pedals between songs).
I do worry that this makes me rely too much on the iPad for lyrics, but it does allow us to get new songs into the set with very little rehearsal time (zero in some cases). I'm also depping for other bands and there wouldn't be enough hours in the day to learn everything perfectly.

Sorry, mate, as you can see from posts above, you’re expected to rehearse every song and know it inside out before every gig. No excuses.

Exactly!… learn the songs…

Cols

Thanks for the input everyone - it’s good to know I’m not the only one out there who just grafts away memorising everything for a prop-free performance.

Having done a gig last night (thankfully without forgetting any of the words) I’ve come to the conclusion that having something like Onsong or Bandhelper onstage is a useful aide memoire for selected moments.  If you just need a peek to remind yourself how the next verse starts, the rest will come spilling out if you know the song.

If the singer’s glued to their iPad (or worse, phone) because they don’t actually know the words, that’s a different matter.  Difficult to connect with the audience in that situation.  And as others have noted, there’s more to a song than just the words - what’s the melody, when are the breaks, etc.

An analogy would be rock climbing with a rope vs free climbing.  The rope is there to prevent you from falling to your doom, not to haul you up the rock face.

Ultimately we’re there to entertain the audience.  If we have a brain fart on stage and draw a blank for the next line because we’re far too cool to have any prompts, that’s not entertaining.

Trude

poopot said:

if you don’t know the lyrics to a song, whether that’s your own original composition or a cover of someone else’s song… you don’t really know the song… you can’t possibly know the melody and you won’t be singing in anything close to “in tune”…

I mean, that's not actually true though is it? Knowing all the lyrics perfectly is not a prerequisite for knowing the melody or for singing it in tune.

Just because I might be a little hazy on the fourth verse or that surprise double-chorus that has a different final line does not mean I can't perform it well.

I take it from your posts so far that you've never had to sing 3 hours of lead vocals for paying punters when they are free to choose requests from a song list of 300 or so? If I played the same set night after night then for sure the lyrics would be hard-coded in my brain. That's not my gigging reality though.

poopot

There’s a few “snide” comment seeping through in these posts… “expected to rehearse” “far to cool” etc etc…

@cols if you’re a band that meet up once every couple of weeks for a run through and gig every other weekend… you shouldn’t need “safety rope” at all as you’ve learnt the songs…

if you’re a band (like our old function band) who meets up only for a gig then you also don’t need a safety rope as you’ve learnt the songs, even new stuff that’s been put in the set the day before the gig!…

if you’re a one man an his acoustic taking requests you should have a repertoire big enough that you can cope with what’s requested… 

none of this is rocket surgery!…

and to be fair, if there’s someone in your band that can’t remember the songs… bin them off in favour of someone who can!…

Snags

FWIW I'm not being sanctimonious, and I won't sneer at anyone for using an iPad, phone, folder, or BFO 50" LCD inside a floor wedge if that's what they want to do.

However, the OP was, basically, "learn the words or use a prompt?", and the assumed context is some kind of consistent performance, not a one-off, or pit band or anything like that. In which case, the target, the goal, the aim, the best approach, is ... learn the words. Learn the song. Know the cues.

I appreciate it's not easy. I played in a church setting for ages where, because the band are backing and a support, not a show, we didn't really have to learn much, and the singers (sometimes me) could just have the music and words in front of us (this is not true of all God-bothering contexts, some are much more 'gig' like). Even there, I played best, and I sang best, on the songs that I knew inside out, not the ones where I was blagging it from a chord + lyrics sheet, or multiple pages of sheet music. And that was a context where really all you had to do was bring the congregation in at the right time and not hit too many bum notes.

Moving to more 'performance' settings and doing pop/rock/singer-songwriter stuff it never occurred to me not to simply learn the whole lot off by heart. Occasionally I'd go out with a sheet for a newer song, but it always ended up going worse than just waiting a week or two until I could do it without. And yes, sometimes I forget the words, and sometimes I stuff up, but you just make that part of the performance. At open mics loads of people use iPads or a folder + music stand. That's fine. But there is a noticable difference in audience interaction and engagement between the people that are looking at their folder/gizmo, and the people who are singing out to the audience. There just is. But nobody's judging, everyone gets a (not the) clap, and a good time is had by all.

poopot

Trude said:

I take it from your posts so far that you've never had to sing 3 hours of lead vocals for paying punters when they are free to choose requests from a song list of 300 or so? If I played the same set night after night then for sure the lyrics would be hard-coded in my brain. That's not my gigging reality though.

I’m not a vocalist no…

however, routinely gig with covers and function bands without rehearsing!… as mentioned above sometimes getting the set the day before and sometimes never having played with the other musicians or even played some of the songs… but… everyone knows what they’re doing… 

maltingsaudio

I’m strictly in the learn first verse and chorus then repeat throughout the allotted time for the song. The audience never know the second verse or listen to what your singing as they know “the words”.

Actually having the printed words in front of you is a hindrance for two reasons, 

1, I can’t see them anyway eyesight too bad and too vain to actually wear glasses when I perform

2, in most cases all the words of a verse when originally written never fit into the verse of a song when performed (Bruce Springsteen lyrics especially) causing eye to mouth co ordination issues 

Rocker

Question: how can the singer perform if he/she can’t remember the lyrics and has to read them from a sheet/iPad?  

Music is more than a series of notes played sequentially, the performer add an extra dimension which combined with the backing band doing their bit, results in a performance. The end result is greater than the individual parts. 

Trude

Rocker said:

Question: how can the singer perform if he/she can’t remember the lyrics and has to read them from a sheet/iPad?  

Music is more than a series of notes played sequentially, the performer add an extra dimension which combined with the backing band doing their bit, results in a performance. The end result is greater than the individual parts. 

Dunno, maybe ask this joker?


I don't think anyone is saying it's viable or desirable to literally read all the lyrics off a screen.  The point of a prompter is to help out if you find yourself struggling to remember a particular part.  What if Robert forgot whether he should be squeezing his lemon or some other food item?

mudslide73

Trude said:

Rocker said:

Question: how can the singer perform if he/she can’t remember the lyrics and has to read them from a sheet/iPad?  

Music is more than a series of notes played sequentially, the performer add an extra dimension which combined with the backing band doing their bit, results in a performance. The end result is greater than the individual parts. 

Dunno, maybe ask this joker?


I don't think anyone is saying it's viable or desirable to literally read all the lyrics off a screen.  The point of a prompter is to help out if you find yourself struggling to remember a particular part.  What if Robert forgot whether he should be squeezing his lemon or some other food item?

Or sang the lyrics to a Spirit song instead?

Our singer uses an iPad. I'd like him to learn the stuff but also I'd rather have him in the band than not. I think it's easier if they love the songs but in cover/function/dep land you could be doing something once then maybe never again. 

Cols

Percy knows from bitter experience what it looks like if you forget the words on stage (or perhaps, in this case, don’t bother your hole learning them in advance).

https://youtu.be/ZUkSGT_4xUo

RocknRollDave

As someone in defence of having lyrics on stage with me, let me just be clear about where I am coming from:

Of course, it looks better if the singer knows the words and doesn't need a prompt. 
Of course I try to use the lyric sheets as little as possible.
I'm not advocating printing off the lyrics and winging it on the night, or not putting any attempt into learning the songs... I'm sure most of us have worked with singers like that (How are those the right words in the right order? They don't even rhyme when you sing them that way round, FFS!) 

That said, I draw from a huge playlist, most of which is NOT of my own choosing (bit of a sore subject, as it happens..). I not only sing, I also play guitar - so I need to know chords and structures too. It also doesn't hurt to have prompts on there like "Capo at 3rd", although of course that can go on the setlist.
I also have a very time-demanding day job and get a ridiculously high number of requests, often at ridiculously short notice.

I'd love to be able to rehearse the songs thoroughly, both individually and with the band. This simply isn't going to happen.

I do, however, practise the songs as much on my own as I can to ensure I can play them to a sufficiently high level. 

I give it some welly when I play and do my darndest to engage with the crowd. I am not mumbling into my lyric book when I play.

All of that said, I would much rather be seen as unprofessional by fellow musos on this forum for using a lyric book than to be seen as unprofessional by a bride and groom for messing up their first dance. 

For what it is worth, I have my own band and work with a number of other line-ups doing the same thing as me, and all of them use lyric prompts of some sort.  And, yes, I'm happy for bassist, drummer, spoons player whoever to use sheets (paper or virtual) to keep them on track. 

Trude

@RocknRollDave ditto here for all of that!

Danny1969

There's nothing non pro about using a visual prompt for lyrics ... it's used at every level from the dog and duck to U2 at Wembley. It is better if it's a little less visible, like an iPad in a fake monitor but even if you know the words it's better to have redundancy ... that's what being professional is.