In Ears Mix

ElectricXII

I've got a festival coming up at the end of the month for which I have no choice but to use in ear monitoring, which I hate. I play and sing backing vocals, and I like to hear a bit of everything, but it always ends up with too much of one thing or another in the monitor mix, and I often struggle to hear the other guitarist.

We won't have the luxury of a sound check, so I need to tell the monitor mix guy what I need up front and then just run with it. The band has drums, bass, two guitars and vox. I definitely don't want the drum overheads

Any tips on what to specify and what to leave out? 

Caffeine_Vampire

Leave out the in-ears.  Horible things.

Sorry, someone will be along shortly with proper advice.

ElectricXII

Ha ha, I'd love to! I still miss great big F@ck Off 2x15 side fills!

Caffeine_Vampire

ElectricXII said:

Ha ha, I'd love to! I still miss great big F@ck Off 2x15 side fills!

We should have lunch

EricTheWeary

I always wanted to hear the bass very clearly, but the my style (ha!) tended to be partial chords and fills/soloing that didn’t sound right unless I could hear the bass. It also locked me more into the groove (I’d rather feel drums than hear them). 

I remember reading an article about on stage mixes and obviously people have different preferences but the pro approach seemed to be to get what the audience can hear. Stops you worrying about things no one else can hear and helps you realise what isn’t working in the whole mix. 

p90fool

I just want FOH in my monitors - I can't play or sing properly with an artificial me me me mix, I need to know what we actually sound like so I can interact dynamically with it.

It also makes the engineer's job way easier, because I'm effectively mixing myself rather than blasting it out hoping they're paying attention and know exactly what I want. 

Danny1969

If it's a biggest stage then have the hi hat rather than overheads. Otherwise you can come unstuck timing wise. 

If it's a stereo IEM feed ... which it should be,  then pan the guitars and the vocals ... this helps you hear the other instruments and vocals clearer without excessive volume. 

Although you might not have a soundcheck you should at least have a PFL line check, otherwise the monitor guy won't have a level for the IEM's. So when you get asked for a quick 1,2 don't do it timid ...do it at singing level so the guy running the ears has a chance of getting it right .... the ears are run pre fader so getting a proper level is essential as turning down the gain on your channel on the desk will also take it down your ears. 

Catthan

following.. 

Gained up guitar in particular, when not mixed well in the IEMs, sounded thin, raspy and sh_t in my IEMs. 
Maybe I didn't put in the effort to EQ my IEM mix properly, add reverb etc. 

Recently I read about Luke using an Echosex pedal always on just bc it sounds good in his IEM so maybe it's worth having something in the main rig that always adds a subtle sense of space. Similar to the FOH mix comment above. 

Anyhow, following..

ElectricXII

Danny1969 said:

If it's a biggest stage then have the hi hat rather than overheads. Otherwise you can come unstuck timing wise. 

If it's a stereo IEM feed ... which it should be,  then pan the guitars and the vocals ... this helps you hear the other instruments and vocals clearer without excessive volume. 

Although you might not have a soundcheck you should at least have a PFL line check, otherwise the monitor guy won't have a level for the IEM's. So when you get asked for a quick 1,2 don't do it timid ...do it at singing level so the guy running the ears has a chance of getting it right .... the ears are run pre fader so getting a proper level is essential as turning down the gain on your channel on the desk will also take it down your ears. 

Thanks, yeah, hi hat is essential and it's a big stage. We'll get a line check at least as there's a 30 minute turnaround time.

sjo89

p90fool said:

I just want FOH in my monitors - I can't play or sing properly with an artificial me me me mix, I need to know what we actually sound like so I can interact dynamically with it.

It also makes the engineer's job way easier, because I'm effectively mixing myself rather than blasting it out hoping they're paying attention and know exactly what I want. 

Each to their own but i've never understood this as in a "proper" mix, the guitars are generally quite quiet. If I can't hear myself loud and clear i literally cant play properly. The disconnect between fingers and ears is so jarring and I start to pluck harder in an attempt to be louder.

sjo89

ElectricXII said:

I've got a festival coming up at the end of the month for which I have no choice but to use in ear monitoring, which I hate. I play and sing backing vocals, and I like to hear a bit of everything, but it always ends up with too much of one thing or another in the monitor mix, and I often struggle to hear the other guitarist.

We won't have the luxury of a sound check, so I need to tell the monitor mix guy what I need up front and then just run with it. The band has drums, bass, two guitars and vox. I definitely don't want the drum overheads

Any tips on what to specify and what to leave out? 

I have limited experience with IEM's and I too hated it from a sonic standpoint. I was using a helix, and whilst the cab sims sounded fine through PA speakers, they sounded truly fizzy and awful in the IEM's. One thing that helps (if possible) is to have a real cab on stange and also using the on stage monitors, so there is some external sound/ambience bleeding in, to stop it feeling so boxy. I really wanna try using some loose fitting/open back earphones, because i think the air tight seal, whilst providing good ear protection, makes for a pretty awful and weird boxy sound.

Ultimately, they protect my hearing and I also dont have to rely on a sound guy for my mix as we control it ourselves via apps on our phone connected to our IEM mixer. 

ElectricXII

sjo89 said:

p90fool said:

I just want FOH in my monitors - I can't play or sing properly with an artificial me me me mix, I need to know what we actually sound like so I can interact dynamically with it.

It also makes the engineer's job way easier, because I'm effectively mixing myself rather than blasting it out hoping they're paying attention and know exactly what I want. 

Each to their own but i've never understood this as in a "proper" mix, the guitars are generally quite quiet. If I can't hear myself loud and clear i literally cant play properly. The disconnect between fingers and ears is so jarring and I start to pluck harder in an attempt to be louder.

The guitar levels concern me too. I'll have an AC30 behind me on the stage, but I've no idea how loud the amp is going to be on a big seafront stage, and like you, if I don't have enough guitar in my IEMs I'll overcompensate by hammering at the guitar.

suitablyswell

I tend to ask for Vocals, kick and snare, then the other guitar. If I can't hear myself well I'll ask for that to be turned up. Spending a previous decade in a band with a bassist who had both a fuzzy memory and a fuzzy sense of timing has left me distrustful

shufflebeat

It should also be underlined that good isolation from onstage sounds and carefully controlled overall volume levels will be at least as important as what goes into the mix.

On a very sensible stage with no high SPLs it can be ok to have, for instance, one ear in, one out. This can make for good appreciation of detail and good onstage engagement/communication. There comes a point, however, where in order to overcome stage sound a single IEM (or a badly fitted pair) would have to be turned up to dangerous levels.

I would suggest get a good vocal level, then a little hihat (there will be bleed from other sources so get that first, it might be enough) then guitars. That'll get you started, tweak from there.

Keep it low, don't shout/hammer and let the PA do the lifting.

Caffeine_Vampire

Just tell them you insist on going old school and when they say 'what'? reply with, 'Thanks for offering, I'll take 100 of them'.

darius

I’m going to suggest you will need everything in your ears. Big stage is going to be a guarantee that you won’t hear your amp.
I would damn demand a sound check. We just did a little pub festival, little stage, full monitor setup, we were last on. (Big) Band before us overran (of course) so we just went on after a line check and no sound check, to be helpful and all. Cue A Feckin nightmare. All I could hear was the bass. No vocals no guitars. A ton of monitor feedback. Took 3 songs to sort it out ish. So we looked like dickheads. Never again. 

And even on a small stage, with a closed back cab at loud volume, if I move even a little bit offline I can’t hear myself. 

So yeah, get lots of everything in your ears. 

maltingsaudio

Problem with getting loads of everything is you get everything which tends to turn to mush in ears. I would suggest kick and hat underneath guitars your vox and lead vox.
The problem with asking for front of house mix , depending on the venue, is that mix will be a combination of the Pa and the acoustic sound from the stage. The engineer will balance the two and it may turn out the front of house mix ie what is actual going through the PA, will not necessarily have all the instruments in it. It’s not unusual to turn off snare bass and noisy guitarists in the front of house speakers to get a balance in the room.

Also whilst bowing to @Danny1969 experience, I would say probably 90% of ears users I come across tend to be mono not stereo for whatever reason . This is probably due to musicians realising four people in a band using stereo ears takes up 8 channels of aux sends and that is quite a high channel count for most desks especially when wedges are also required for bands who don’t have ears.

ElectricXII

Thanks for all the comments guys. I'm going to go vox, guitars, kick and hi hat.