Why do acoustic guitars sound so bad live?

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  • StuckfastStuckfast Frets: 2393
    Agree with all of this but I think there's another issue too, which is that the classic edgy percussive piezo sound is much easier for the performer to hear in the monitors. I remember being part of a PA demo once where I was playing an acoustic guitar through a Fishman Aura. When the Aura was switched on it suddenly started to sound like an acoustic guitar, but it was much more difficult for me to pick out of the monitor mix.
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  • TanninTannin Frets: 5268
    Acoustic guitars sound bad live in the UK because the bloody Brits haven't discovered Maton. 
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  • guitarjack66guitarjack66 Frets: 1796
    Tannin said:
    Acoustic guitars sound bad live in the UK because the bloody Brits haven't discovered Maton. 
    There is/was one for sale in the Classifieds section of the site, here.
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  • ICBMICBM Frets: 71952
    Tannin said:
    Acoustic guitars sound bad live in the UK because the bloody Brits haven't discovered Maton. 
    A friend of mine has one - can’t remember the model, but it’s one with a satin finish - it does sound very good, much better than the Takamine and piezo-only Taylor he had before, but I wouldn’t say it’s better than something like a Martin with the Fishman Aura system, and possibly not better than one of the new Taylors, although I haven’t compared them directly. It’s still got a bit of that ’electro-acoustic’ sound.

    "Take these three items, some WD-40, a vise grip, and a roll of duct tape. Any man worth his salt can fix almost any problem with this stuff alone." - Walt Kowalski

    "Just because I don't care, doesn't mean I don't understand." - Homer Simpson

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  • crunchmancrunchman Frets: 11411
    Tannin said:
    Acoustic guitars sound bad live in the UK because the bloody Brits haven't discovered Maton. 

    Guitar Village stock them.  I tried a few but wasn't very impressed with the acoustic sound on them.  I much prefer a Martin or a Furch.

    I don't know what they sound like plugged in, but if you are buying purely for the plugged in sound (because I wouldn't buy for the unplugged sound) then these days you are better off getting a Fender Acoustasonic.
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  • SupportactSupportact Frets: 895
    I agree with what people have said so far about the limitations of the equipment. In particular I think a 'real' sounding acoustic is hard because you're trying to replicate a sound with many variables. That said with some effort it should be possible to achieve a 'usable' sound, which is a different thing. 

    This has made me think. Is a bad acoustic sound more noticeable/offensive than a bad electric guitar sound? I think it is, although I'm not sure I can explain why. 
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  • TheBigDipperTheBigDipper Frets: 4722
    I've been at the Dart Music Festival this weekend. Yesterday found me sitting in a beer garden listening to Phil Dewhurst doing his covers set extremely well with a nice natural guitar tone. Didn't get close enough to see what the pickup was in the guitar before he went on a break, but there was something in the sound hole. The preamp on the floor was a Boss AD-10 and he was running voice and guitar through an AER Compact 60. It all sounded great to me.
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  • TanninTannin Frets: 5268
    crunchman said:

    I don't know what they sound like plugged in, but if you are buying purely for the plugged in sound (because I wouldn't buy for the unplugged sound) then these days you are better off getting a Fender Acoustasonic.
    Oh no, no, no. What an appallingly horrible thing they are. I wouldn't have one if you gave it to me. Seriously, I'd just sell it. If I wasn't allowed to sell it, then I'd chuck it in the shed and let the mice nest in it. 

    Don't get me wrong - I don't hate Fender, not by any means. I like Strats, I love Teles, and my 59 Fender bass was by far the best bass guitar I've ever played in my life. But those Acoustasonic things ... just no. 

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  • nikharrisonnikharrison Frets: 94
    edited May 2022
    A lot of the time, there are massively contrasting opinions as to what an acoustic guitar ‘should’ sound like.

    I play a lot of acoustic/classical stuff, and the options are comparable with the electric world, there is also context which has a huge bearing on what you would want to hear.

    With the classical guitar, essentially I want it to sound as close as possible to its unamplified tone, and a K&K pickup and pre-amp into a Trace Acoustic TA50R or an AER Compact 60 is pretty close. It will never be perfect because that kind of sound isn’t in ‘straight lines’ by its nature, and any amplified sound invariably will be. 

    With the acoustic guitar, there is significant gulf between the sounds that many of us would want to hear. I’ve always loved Ovations in terms of both their playability and their acoustic (and amplified) tones. Some people hate them! For me, they are perfect acoustic sound for playing certain solo stuff, and for contributing to a band (with really useable on board eq to make it properly fit into a mix). For most of my solo stuff I use a Taylor 414CE just with the stock Expression 2 system and while it’s not a perfect replica of its sound when not amplified, it’s a strong representation of the instrument in an amplified sense. Again, with amplification it’s back to sound being in straight lines again rather than the authentic nature of an acoustic instrument’s natural tone. In a band setting, this tone can be a bit too much and take up too much of the frequency range so it would need reigning in somewhat with a bit of eq so context is important. 

    Stu Clark is a friend of mine and he generally uses a Taylor GS mini but because he prefers a more ‘zingy’ (I would call it ‘trebly’) tone, he uses a headway pickup system, and that really transforms the guitar into a powerful live tool. I prefer a bit of a more mellow tone, but I can understand how Stu’s tone is more suited to the way he plays. I guess it’s all back to that entire concept which underpins every internet form on any topic, the old ‘matter of opinion’:

    https://youtu.be/06rbQBOH5AA


    Teacher, musician, generally an enthusiastic and peaceful idealist. Run the Contemporary Guitar Performance Workshop education project and the Audio Design Workshop studio. Online guitar and piano/keyboard lessons available over Zoom/Skype. 
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  • bermudianbritbermudianbrit Frets: 171
    The first time I tried a Maton, it was already plugged in and I was blown away. It really did sound beautiful through the test amp I was playing into...it wasn't an Aer either - it was a Loudbox or something fairly mid-range pricewise.
    But when the amp was turned off and I just played the guitar itself...it was quite bland and uninspiring to me. I know that people play them for their plugged in tone, but the majority of my playing is done acoustically and I need to love that first and foremost. Maybe I tried a dud and I'd be willing to revisit them but on the strength of what I heard that day I wouldn't purchase one unless I was gigging all the time and needed that.


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  • HonkycatHonkycat Frets: 4
    James Taylor’s live guitar sound is fantastic. Not sure what gear he uses with the Olsens though. 
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  • crunchmancrunchman Frets: 11411
    Tannin said:
    crunchman said:

    I don't know what they sound like plugged in, but if you are buying purely for the plugged in sound (because I wouldn't buy for the unplugged sound) then these days you are better off getting a Fender Acoustasonic.
    Oh no, no, no. What an appallingly horrible thing they are. I wouldn't have one if you gave it to me. Seriously, I'd just sell it. If I wasn't allowed to sell it, then I'd chuck it in the shed and let the mice nest in it. 

    Don't get me wrong - I don't hate Fender, not by any means. I like Strats, I love Teles, and my 59 Fender bass was by far the best bass guitar I've ever played in my life. But those Acoustasonic things ... just no. 


    Have you tried one?

    My wife bought me one as a present.  For plugged in use, it's probably the best "acoustic" I have owned.
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  • LewyLewy Frets: 4124
    ICBM said:
    I think a big problem is that now, a lot of sound engineers think that the 'classic' Takamine-type electro-acoustic sound is what an acoustic guitar is *meant* to sound like, so even when presented with something which inherently sounds better, they try to EQ it so it has that same thin, hollow tone with way too much string attack, top-end and body boom.
    There was a while I was using the LR Baggs Lyric internal mic and this sort of things was ultimately the reason I had to abandon it - so many of the gigs I was doing were quick line checks and then on, and sound engineers just couldn't seem to get theirs heads around the concept of listening to what sound the guitar was making and adjusting accordingly rather than defaulting to their standard approach for dialing in UST equipped acoustics. The Lyric has great potential, none of which could be realised in the practical scenarios because the average jobbing London sound engineer generally can't be assumed to be giving a shit about the sound!
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  • bertiebertie Frets: 13564
    there's a wold of difference between "good" and "acceptable" 

    for me anyways
    just because you don't, doesn't mean you can't
     just because you do, doesn't mean you should.
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  • LestratcasterLestratcaster Frets: 1079
    Cos they always have crap pieze/magnetic pickup systems built in which never capture the best sound of an acoustic guitar which is either mic'd up with a nice condenser mic (not really practical on a stage) or unplugged sitting in front of it. The closest sounding natural sound I've heard so far are either the LR Baggs Anthem or the Schertler AG6 as both use a mic you plug in get that moving air sound.
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  • crunchmancrunchman Frets: 11411
    Cos they always have crap pieze/magnetic pickup systems built in which never capture the best sound of an acoustic guitar which is either mic'd up with a nice condenser mic (not really practical on a stage) or unplugged sitting in front of it. The closest sounding natural sound I've heard so far are either the LR Baggs Anthem or the Schertler AG6 as both use a mic you plug in get that moving air sound.

    All the best systems I've come across that don't use digital trickery have been blend systems with a mic.

    These days the digital trickery has completely changed things though.  A simple undersaddle piezo with digital trickery (preferably outboard) is the way I would go if I was getting something new.
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  • shufflebeatshufflebeat Frets: 104
    Context is also important. Many sound techs are setting up a percussive, top-heavy sound because the instrument has to fulfil a specific role as part of an overall sound where the bass is already providing the warmth and meat. In this case it's tempting to set the acoustic as tuned percussive rather than melody.

    I play a lot with fiddle, accordion and flute players where my role is both percussive and chordal. Anything that doesn't come across as organic will sound out of place and my current setup of Tak341 and Tonedexter is as good as I've heard anywhere in that respect.
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  • TeacherphilTeacherphil Frets: 128
    The best one I've ever heard was some guy with a Yamaha LL6 at that musiclounge place in Stockton a few years back. Well done if that was you.
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  • JayGeeJayGee Frets: 1254
    edited May 2022
    crunchman said:
    Tannin said:
    crunchman said:

    I don't know what they sound like plugged in, but if you are buying purely for the plugged in sound (because I wouldn't buy for the unplugged sound) then these days you are better off getting a Fender Acoustasonic.
    Oh no, no, no. What an appallingly horrible thing they are. I wouldn't have one if you gave it to me. Seriously, I'd just sell it. If I wasn't allowed to sell it, then I'd chuck it in the shed and let the mice nest in it. 

    Don't get me wrong - I don't hate Fender, not by any means. I like Strats, I love Teles, and my 59 Fender bass was by far the best bass guitar I've ever played in my life. But those Acoustasonic things ... just no. 


    Have you tried one?

    My wife bought me one as a present.  For plugged in use, it's probably the best "acoustic" I have owned.
    I tried one when I got my Taylor. It was brilliant, exactly the guitar I needed for the job I bought the Taylor for (with the added bonus of being able to flip to a clean or lightly driven electric sound which would be perfect for adding a little contrast to some of my current band’s songs). But I didn’t want it enough to justify the cost. I’d like one as well (and could totally see it happening one day) as a tool but I couldn’t summon any enthusiasm for it as my one and only “acoustic”…
    Don't ask me, I just play the damned thing...
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  • StuckfastStuckfast Frets: 2393
    We should also bear in mind that the idea of a "natural" amplified acoustic guitar sound is a bit of an oxymoron. Even if you were able to perfectly capture the acoustic sound of the instrument and simply make it louder, psychoacoustics would mean that the tone would appear to change. 
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