Helix into trad cabs/digital modeller and power amps

Jetfire

So, where are these days with powering a helix into a trad cab? Is the sd170 still the king? Are people using the powercab in anger these days?

Edit: for definition, a traditional cab is using a traditional speaker like a V30 etc. I'm not interested in FRFR or PA speakers 

octatonic

I'm favouring a stage monitor for foldback and going out the FOH for audience.
Using an EV PXM12MP.

At home/studio I use studio monitors. 

Bidley

I use a Laney LFR112 for rehearsal, haven't had to use it for a gig yet as the in-house PA and wedges have been good enough. Studio monitors at home.

I tried the Harley Benton GPA-100 into a 2x12 but it wasn't loud enough and sounded like it was underwater. I haven't felt the need to try any other power amp into real cab options, because it feels like an extra level of faff and complexity which negates some of the benefits of using a modeller live. That and I'm happy with FRFR.

Jetfire

octatonic said:

I'm favouring a stage monitor for foldback and going out the FOH for audience.
Using an EV PXM12MP.

At home/studio I use studio monitors. 

That's not a trad cab thou

Roland

User experience here

Jetfire

Roland said:

User experience here

Again, not a "traditional" cab

nick79

I run mine through a Fryette Powerstation and into either a 1x12 or 4x12 depending on how loud I want to get. I’ve tried frfr but I much prefer ‘real’ cabs and speakers. 

octatonic

Jetfire said:

octatonic said:

I'm favouring a stage monitor for foldback and going out the FOH for audience.
Using an EV PXM12MP.

At home/studio I use studio monitors. 

That's not a trad cab thou

I think you'll find people often tend to prefer not using trad cabs these days.
Because you have to take the modeller plus a power amp plus a cabinet.

Given modellers have excellent cab emulations now it is just easier to go to FOH and use either in ears or a stage monitor.

I still have a Matrix power amp that I previously used with a traditional cab- I haven't used it in about 2 years.

Jetfire

octatonic said:

Jetfire said:

octatonic said:

I'm favouring a stage monitor for foldback and going out the FOH for audience.
Using an EV PXM12MP.

At home/studio I use studio monitors. 

That's not a trad cab thou

I think you'll find people often tend to prefer not using trad cabs these days.
Because you have to take the modeller plus a power amp plus a cabinet.

Given modellers have excellent cab emulations now it is just easier to go to FOH and use either in ears or a stage monitor.

I still have a Matrix power amp that I previously used with a traditional cab- I haven't used it in about 2 years.

But I'm not asking about frfr, I'm specifically asking about trad cab set ups, I don't really care about what other people use. 

I had a matrix power amp before, it was ace.

mrkb

I use a matrix GT1000 stereo power amp into various 1x12 and 2x12 cabs, but mostly prefer the FRFR CLRs.

mark_jwedge

I use my HX stomp into either a SD170 or the poweramp of a DV Mark Micro 50 (plugging into the Aux input as mine doesn’t have an FX loop, but the Aux bypasses the pre amp so works the same as plugging into the return of an Fx loop) into my 2x12.

would really like to try the orange pedal baby and a valve power amp like the fryette power station or KSR PA 50. I have read a lot of people also like plugging into the FX return of a bluguitar amp1

guitargeek62

@octatonic - I can’t comment on live/performance use but I much preferred this approach with my HX at home. I bypassed any cab modelling/IRs and ran it into a creamback H-loaded Zilla cab with a little AMT power amp, it sounded bloody superb  

Grangousier

This is just in my living room so far, but I'm running a Stomp into the effects return of a JC-40 and it sounds very nice, but as I said, I've not tried it at volume (as the knob on the Stomp is only at nine o'clock at the moment, I think it would probably go quite loud, certainly enough for my purposes). One thing is that it's possible to use stereo effects (it's quite subtle, but nice, to run stereo delay and reverb on a side channel with the dry signal going direct). One thing I don't know is the best way to run it direct to PA - the JC-40 has a direct out, but I'm assuming it would need an IR on it, which is even more faff. That's if I was going to play live and needed the live amp. 

Adamski

Apparently a lot of people are using those mini bass amps as a power amp for Helix/Kemper etc in to a traditional amp. The TC BAM200 or Warwick Gnome are the ones most use and they are dirt cheap. If you head over to gearpage? Many prefer them to the Seymour Duncan power amps. 

The holy grail is the Fryette Powerstation though because that’s valve. It might colour the sound slightly but it’ll introduce the dynamics we all know and love, so the trade off is worth it IMO. Still, that’s an expensive option 

paulphoenix

I struggled with my Stomp into FRFR, and it continually failed to hit the mark for me at rehearsals - no doubt due to user error (or my tinnitus-ridden cloth ears). So I swapped over to traditional cab and SS amp. I've been much happier ever since. 

I started with an old Carlsbro 100W SS amp and fed my HX Stomp into the FX return. Being extremely happy with the results (or easily pleased?) I looked to replace the Carlsbro with something a little more modern. I then purchased a Marshall MG50GFX and the results were better still. But because I wanted to slimline my digital rig I sent the Marshall back, and after further research based around my available budget I purchased:

A TC BAM200, and a Harley Benton GPA-100 (as a back up). 

Both are fed into a 1x12 cab with a 4ohm Celestion Hot 100 (transplanted from the Carlsbro amp). 

There are probably better options out there at the upper end of the market, but I don't hear any reason to get anymore spendy. YMMV.IMHO.MTC. etc..  

digitalscream

I'm running Stomp -> SD170 -> Matrix NL212 (yes, it's a traditional cab with neo speakers).

I'll be honest, I've never had such a no-compromises rig. I know that sounds weird to say, but not being forced to compromise my lead tone for my rhythm tone (as I used to when using valve amps with shared EQ) is bloody marvellous, and I've had numerous guitarists from other bands ask me where I've hidden my amp given how good it sounds.

Nowadays, you can get the SD170 for about £200 second hand, which is about as bargainous as it gets, and there's easily enough headroom even into 8 ohms - through my 2x12", I can drown out an enthusiastic drummer before the amp runs out of steam.

abw1989

I use Helix floor into a Warwick Gnome in a 2x12 V30 cab. Yes, yes, yes, the Warwick Gnome is penned as a bass amp, but in reality, it's a Class D power amp that has a fully flat EQ response when all the dials are at 12 o'clock.

It's tiny and fits into my Helix backpack pocket and is absolutely plenty loud enough to keep up in a full band scenario. I tried using both pre-amp and full amp blocks on the Helix, and decided that full amp blocks just sounded better, fuller and more articulate.

I have an IR of my cab in the Helix too, so for live use I run one output without the IR into the Gnome and cab for on-stage noise and monitoring, and then the IR loaded output goes via XLR to the PA. 

paulphoenix

abw1989 said:

I have an IR of my cab in the Helix too, so for live use I run one output without the IR into the Gnome and cab for on-stage noise and monitoring, and then the IR loaded output goes via XLR to the PA. 

Wis' awarded for this great idea. 

Jetfire

So I've noticed no one is mentioning the Pedal Baby 100 here? The SD I've tried but I'm not sure if it's the modeller that was the problem or the SD not meeting my (potentially high) expectations 

digitalscream

Jetfire said:

So I've noticed no one is mentioning the Pedal Baby 100 here? The SD I've tried but I'm not sure if it's the modeller that was the problem or the SD not meeting my (potentially high) expectations 

Because - from everything I've seen and heard - the Orange isn't a neutral amp, and thus it's not really what you want when using a modeller because it makes things a lot less predictable.

I'm curious as to what you didn't like about the SD? For my money, it's absolutely perfect - and the active EQ is astonishingly powerful (eg turning the bass control up gives you "more bass" rather than "more sludge").

As with all the A-list modellers, though, it's not necessarily about the gear but rather the patch. There's no way, for example, that a patch that sounds perfect at home through monitors is going to sound as good at band volume. I usually maintain two sets of presets - one for home, and one for playing live.

guitarmangler

Hmm, reading this thread makes me think I should revisit using my lt live. I very much like the idea of using a snapshot for lead/not lead ( I’m lazy and just use my volume on the guitar for a clean-ish sound, and a tubescreamer for lead, at the mo)so would probably get a stomp if I liked using it.

Has anyone used a wedge with a guitar speaker as a monitor instead of a cab/frfr ? I thought I could have a passive one with a v30 or something for me and the band on the floor and pump the rest through the PA.