Helix into trad cabs/digital modeller and power amps

digitalscream

guitarmangler said:

Has anyone used a wedge with a guitar speaker as a monitor instead of a cab/frfr ? I thought I could have a passive one with a v30 or something for me and the band on the floor and pump the rest through the PA. 

I believe Jet City made one - or maybe it was a combo amp in a wedge. All reports suggested it sounded like ass compared with a proper-sized cab, even a 1x12". Physical volume matters, unfortunately.

guitarmangler

digitalscream said:

guitarmangler said:

Has anyone used a wedge with a guitar speaker as a monitor instead of a cab/frfr ? I thought I could have a passive one with a v30 or something for me and the band on the floor and pump the rest through the PA. 

I believe Jet City made one - or maybe it was a combo amp in a wedge. All reports suggested it sounded like ass compared with a proper-sized cab, even a 1x12". Physical volume matters, unfortunately.

Bum. Back to the drawing board ! 

Jetfire

digitalscream said:

Jetfire said:

So I've noticed no one is mentioning the Pedal Baby 100 here? The SD I've tried but I'm not sure if it's the modeller that was the problem or the SD not meeting my (potentially high) expectations 

Because - from everything I've seen and heard - the Orange isn't a neutral amp, and thus it's not really what you want when using a modeller because it makes things a lot less predictable.

I'm curious as to what you didn't like about the SD? For my money, it's absolutely perfect - and the active EQ is astonishingly powerful (eg turning the bass control up gives you "more bass" rather than "more sludge").

As with all the A-list modellers, though, it's not necessarily about the gear but rather the patch. There's no way, for example, that a patch that sounds perfect at home through monitors is going to sound as good at band volume. I usually maintain two sets of presets - one for home, and one for playing live.

So, it just sounded flat to me, rather than a 3d kinda sound. I was using my usual patch minus the cabs but I didn't have a chance to really play that much but out of the box, it wasn't like it was a great sound. It wasn't shoddy, but didn't quite get there. I was using a 4 x 12 with it and it was ok, but just not there. I did use the FX loop of my Laney irt studio once but again, it want rocking my world....

I could lnt put my finger in it but if I was going to spend £300+ on getting a cab and a SD, you're nearly into a pretty good combo for that money...

trolley

I started my Helix journey with a Matrix GT1000 power amp into a Marshall 1936 with and without IR's (some sound weird, some less so).
I then bought a Matrix 1 x 12" FRFR and ran that. I tried it at jam nights and band rehearsals & preferred it. Especially the weight saving!
I've now got a second Matrix FRFR cab and run the 2 together to spread the sound (only at home so far)

digitalscream

Jetfire said:

digitalscream said:

Jetfire said:

So I've noticed no one is mentioning the Pedal Baby 100 here? The SD I've tried but I'm not sure if it's the modeller that was the problem or the SD not meeting my (potentially high) expectations 

Because - from everything I've seen and heard - the Orange isn't a neutral amp, and thus it's not really what you want when using a modeller because it makes things a lot less predictable.

I'm curious as to what you didn't like about the SD? For my money, it's absolutely perfect - and the active EQ is astonishingly powerful (eg turning the bass control up gives you "more bass" rather than "more sludge").

As with all the A-list modellers, though, it's not necessarily about the gear but rather the patch. There's no way, for example, that a patch that sounds perfect at home through monitors is going to sound as good at band volume. I usually maintain two sets of presets - one for home, and one for playing live.

So, it just sounded flat to me, rather than a 3d kinda sound. I was using my usual patch minus the cabs but I didn't have a chance to really play that much but out of the box, it wasn't like it was a great sound. It wasn't shoddy, but didn't quite get there. I was using a 4 x 12 with it and it was ok, but just not there. I did use the FX loop of my Laney irt studio once but again, it want rocking my world....

I could lnt put my finger in it but if I was going to spend £300+ on getting a cab and a SD, you're nearly into a pretty good combo for that money...

OK, interesting.

For what it's worth, if you start off with a studio patch, you have to do a lot of tweaking to get the right sound at volume. I find it's usually best to start from a blank patch. Also...volume matters just as much here as it does with a valve amp, if not more so. I've had the same patch sound completely flat and lifeless and then, on turning the power amp up a bit, suddenly come alive.

Jetfire

So, what speaker are in your Matrix cab @digitalscream ;

digitalscream

Jetfire said:

So, what speaker are in your Matrix cab @digitalscream ;

I'm actually not sure. They're either some flavour of Celestion Neos or some custom-made neo drivers that are voiced to be a bit like V30s.

Jetfire

digitalscream said:

Jetfire said:

So, what speaker are in your Matrix cab @digitalscream ;

I'm actually not sure. They're either some flavour of Celestion Neos or some custom-made neo drivers that are voiced to be a bit like V30s.

Ah ok, I didnt see a none FRFR cab on Thier website bit you'd already said it was a trad cab. 

I'm potentially looking at trying the SD again then....maybe i need more time with it 

Jetfire

Open for consideration is getting a combo and using the FX loop for it as the bonus is I'll have a free speaker with it too

guitargeek62

I did that with a KTN-100 that I had for a bit just to see if I preferred the bypassed cab/IR sim and before taking the plunge with a Zilla cab

Jetfire

guitargeek62 said:

I did that with a KTN-100 that I had for a bit just to see if I preferred the bypassed cab/IR sim and before taking the plunge with a Zilla cab

Just noticed you are using an AMT, which one have you gone for?

paulphoenix

Jet-fire said:

Open for consideration is getting a combo and using the FX loop for it as the bonus is I'll have a free speaker with it too

Line 6 Catalyst ? Built in back up option too 

Musicwolf

guitarmangler said:

Hmm, reading this thread makes me think I should revisit using my lt live. I very much like the idea of using a snapshot for lead/not lead ( I’m lazy and just use my volume on the guitar for a clean-ish sound, and a tubescreamer for lead, at the mo)so would probably get a stomp if I liked using it.

Has anyone used a wedge with a guitar speaker as a monitor instead of a cab/frfr ? I thought I could have a passive one with a v30 or something for me and the band on the floor and pump the rest through the PA. 

For lead I have a second amp path (with associated effects) and bring it in using the expression pedal set as a vol pedal.  You can either bring it in on top of the non-lead path or set another volume pedal in the first path, linked to the same expression pedal, but operating in reverse.  So much easier than trying to hit a footswitch whilst also doing backing vocals.

I run straight to front of house. I use in ears but some of the band have wedges and they can hear as much, or as little, of me as they desire.  When I first used modellers live I had a FRFR cab (I used an Alto TS210) on stage.  If you wanted to use a power amp / V30 on stage then you could feed it from a send block after the amp but before the cab block / IR then send the final signal straight to the PA.  Use a cab / IR that closely matches your on stage sound.

chrishill901

Jetfire said:

So I've noticed no one is mentioning the Pedal Baby 100 here? The SD I've tried but I'm not sure if it's the modeller that was the problem or the SD not meeting my (potentially high) expectations 

I'm using a Pedal Baby 100 with an Orange PPC212V for my Helix and it's just the ticket. But I'm actually a little weird and running it a bit different - i've got a York Audio V30 IR on my Helix which is perfect for FOH and works great in the mix but I don't like my stage sound as piercing so I'm running through Neo Creambacks with the Pedal Baby which is a darker sound which I prefer on stage. I get a nice balance of a dark sound behind me and the YA IR through the wedge and it feels great. The only issues I run into are things like yesterday at a festival where cabs were provided and mic'd up and they took the mic feed instead of going direct from my helix so everything sounded different to what I was used to (I think the cabs had T75s in) and the Pedal Baby isn't really great for EQ'ing in that situation. The treble dial is basically a 'harsh' control and the bass is a 'boom' control and both serve no real help in shaping tone, they are more just for subtle tweaks based on the room you are in. And I'm buggered if I know how to tweak the Helix on the fly.

But the feel from the Pedal Baby is great, and it is plenty loud. I've never had it over 3 without the sound man telling me it's too loud. If it colours the tone it does it in a way that is fine by me. But I do get a lot of 'WTF is that?' from sound guys thinking I'm running a bass head or something.

Tat2dstesh

Using a helix xl into a pedal baby and it sounds great. I'm only using the preamp patches as I have only used it for 2 rehearsals so far but when I get a chance this week I was going to do my patches with the amp settings instead and see what that sounds like. 
I like the fact the pedal baby has a more natural feel compared to the SD 170, but I'm now interested in looking at the mini bass heads as I never thought of that 

guitargeek62

Jetfire said:

guitargeek62 said:

I did that with a KTN-100 that I had for a bit just to see if I preferred the bypassed cab/IR sim and before taking the plunge with a Zilla cab

Just noticed you are using an AMT, which one have you gone for?

Just a basic tubecake 3w thing - ample for home and it responded really nicely to the HX. I had that rig for 18mos, but ended up switching to a Diezel VH Micro. I expect I’ll go back to the TC-3 plus a HX Stomp and/or VH4-2 pedal though for amp tones, along with separate stompboxes to alleviate GAS.

PolarityMan

octatonic said:

Jetfire said:

octatonic said:

I'm favouring a stage monitor for foldback and going out the FOH for audience.
Using an EV PXM12MP.

At home/studio I use studio monitors. 

That's not a trad cab thou

I think you'll find people often tend to prefer not using trad cabs these days.
Because you have to take the modeller plus a power amp plus a cabinet.

Given modellers have excellent cab emulations now it is just easier to go to FOH and use either in ears or a stage monitor.

I still have a Matrix power amp that I previously used with a traditional cab- I haven't used it in about 2 years.

We do the odd practice using IEMs only but its really not the same, I kinda like using IEMs with a bit of volume coming from the cab through the IEMs. The IEMs mean you dont have to run the cabs super loud to get over the drummer and let you control the mix so you can actually hear the vocals etc but you dont lose the experience of playing through a cab. Going helix -> power amp -> cab is OK in my experience but a backup option for me as doesnt quite have the sense of "liveness" and reactiveness of a real amp. Never tried FRFR but I play regularly through studio monitors at home and I think I would find that a bit underwhelming live too tbh. .