Valve Amp Weight Reduction – A Simple Idea from a Simple Man!

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deanodeano Frets: 622

Okay, I am no expert and I assume that someone will be along soon to tell me my idea is unfeasible, dangerous, and/or pointless, or some combination thereof.

However I’ve noticed that there are many discussions over the weight of amps, and of course as soon as something changes to threaten the existence of valves (for example the quite brilliant Tonemaster range) in order to reduce weight (and cost, and reliability etc. etc.) then some people start jumping up and down. More so over on TGP for example, but even over here there are those who dislike the idea that valves may no longer be fit for purpose.

So I’ve used me noggin!

I understand – and again I have no clue of the innards of an amp – that the power and output transformers are responsible most of the weight in an amp.

Now, combos were split into heads and cabinets in order to make it easier to move amps around, so taking that idea one step further, would it be possible to split an amp, not just into two (head and cab), but into three, so the transformers are removed into their own cabinet, joined with a cable of some sort

Would it get rid of weight? No, of course not, but would it make moving the weight easier? Yes, I think it would. Just as with a combo, it is easier to move the head and the cab, I think it would be easier to move the cab, the head, and the transformer box

Of course it wouldn’t take any less energy, but as we get older it becomes  more accepted to make a couple of trips to move stuff around, rather than in one big lift like we used to do when we were in our twenties or thirties.

There is also the potential, like with cabs and speakers, to create a new market for combining the head from one company, with the transformers from another, going into the cabs from other companies, filled with  speakers from a multitude of other manufacturers.

The fan-boys on TGP would love that!

Okay, shoot it down!
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Comments

  • SassafrasSassafras Frets: 30273
    You're sort of describing rack amps.
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  • deanodeano Frets: 622
    Sassafras said:
    You're sort of describing rack amps.
    Possibly, yes. I never thought of that.

    But if they were in cabinets that matched the look of the head and cab (similar dimensions, tolex covering etc) then they would appear as an integral whole as it were.

    I'm just thinking of a way to manage the practicalities of moving heavy equipment around for those of us not in the first flush of youth anymore (not that I'm tied to a valve amp - my Egnater Tweaker hasn't been switched on for over a year. I use Overloud's TH-U on my PC and iPad these days).
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  • Moe_ZambeekMoe_Zambeek Frets: 3419
    Also sort of describing the Fryette aether.
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  • Danny1969Danny1969 Frets: 10357
    The power transformer in a valve amp is a step up, maybe 500V on the output so you wouldn't want any cables coming from that being touched by anyone. 
    The output speaker transformer also has the high voltage on it's primary so again dangerous to have as a separate unit.

    So basically not possible for safety reasons. 
    www.2020studios.co.uk 
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  • deanodeano Frets: 622
    Danny1969 said:
    The power transformer in a valve amp is a step up, maybe 500V on the output so you wouldn't want any cables coming from that being touched by anyone. 
    The output speaker transformer also has the high voltage on it's primary so again dangerous to have as a separate unit.

    So basically not possible for safety reasons. 
    Fair enough. That's the primary consideration of course. Cheers.
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  • ICBMICBM Frets: 71960
    Contrary to popular belief, the heaviest items in a valve amplifier aren't the transformers, they're the cabinet and speaker.

    You need to be getting up to at least a 100W guitar amp, or more likely 200W+ bass amp, before the transformers are heavier than the speaker. (And even then, multiple speakers will outweigh them.)

    A toroidal PT can save some weight. Blackstar appear to have now introduced a valve amp with a Switch Mode power supply (SMPS) which does away with the heavy PT altogether, but it still must have an output transformer.

    If you really want to do the job properly, the solution is solid state combined with a lightweight cabinet and neodymium speakers.

    "Take these three items, some WD-40, a vise grip, and a roll of duct tape. Any man worth his salt can fix almost any problem with this stuff alone." - Walt Kowalski

    "Just because I don't care, doesn't mean I don't understand." - Homer Simpson

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  • fastonebazfastonebaz Frets: 4065
    Aluminium cabinets instead of wood? 
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  • BlackbirdCabsBlackbirdCabs Frets: 266
    I feel like the head and cab set up solves the weight problem for most of us. An easier way to distribute the weight even more would be to have two 1x12 cabs that sit neatly on top of each other rather than a big old 2x12 (which is awkward to lift even if it has neodymium speakers in).
    The less stuff that has to be lifted from the floor the easier it is on your back - lifting things from waist height and above is so much easier.
    Blackbird Cabs - bespoke guitar cabinets, handcrafted in North Devon
    sam@blackbirdcabs.com

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  • LastMantraLastMantra Frets: 3822
    ICBM said:
    Contrary to popular belief, the heaviest items in a valve amplifier aren't the transformers, they're the cabinet and speaker.

    In a combo.
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  • impmannimpmann Frets: 12649
    ICBM said:
    Contrary to popular belief, the heaviest items in a valve amplifier aren't the transformers, they're the cabinet and speaker.

    You need to be getting up to at least a 100W guitar amp, or more likely 200W+ bass amp, before the transformers are heavier than the speaker. (And even then, multiple speakers will outweigh them.)

    A toroidal PT can save some weight. Blackstar appear to have now introduced a valve amp with a Switch Mode power supply (SMPS) which does away with the heavy PT altogether, but it still must have an output transformer.

    If you really want to do the job properly, the solution is solid state combined with a lightweight cabinet and neodymium speakers.
    A lot of folks are banding this around and I'm not sure its as true as they believe it to be.

    Example:

    Blackstar Stage60Mk2 112 mains transformer 3.6Kg
    Celestion Seventy/80 speaker 3.1Kg

    I don't have a cabinet to hand, so can't comment formally but they aren't heavier than 3.6Kg.

    Not *quite* so clear cut...

     
    Never Ever Bloody Anything Ever.

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  • ICBMICBM Frets: 71960
    impmann said:

    A lot of folks are banding this around and I'm not sure its as true as they believe it to be.

    Example:

    Blackstar Stage60Mk2 112 mains transformer 3.6Kg
    Celestion Seventy/80 speaker 3.1Kg

    I don't have a cabinet to hand, so can't comment formally but they aren't heavier than 3.6Kg.

    Not *quite* so clear cut...
    Decent speakers weigh more than that ;).

    I'd be amazed if an HT60 cabinet wasn't more than 3.6Kg... it's quite a heavy amp.

    I admit my experience is based on things like the Mesa Trem-o-verb, where the weight was definitely in the cabinet and speakers, even though I didn't actually weigh them - but the transformers are no larger than in any other 100W amp, and the combo weighed 45Kg, which is a *lot* more than most other 2x12"s. Even with two V30s (4.7Kg each), clearly most of the rest is the cabinet.

    (Joking about the speaker... I'm really not a fan of the stock Seventy/80 though, as you know! Still like the Line 6 one :).)

    "Take these three items, some WD-40, a vise grip, and a roll of duct tape. Any man worth his salt can fix almost any problem with this stuff alone." - Walt Kowalski

    "Just because I don't care, doesn't mean I don't understand." - Homer Simpson

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  • Modulus_AmpsModulus_Amps Frets: 2569
    tFB Trader
    here are some options on how to save weight with a valve amp, without making the whole situation dangerous with high voltage flying leads.

    Use a pine cab over a plywood/MDF cab
    Use a lightweight Neo speaker
    Use high grade laminations in the transformers - allows you to reduce stack height which reduces weight or
    Use toriods or SMPS power supply - I think the amp would need to be designed around that as even the PT has an effect on feel of an amp.
    Use an aluminium chassis
    Use a smaller valve amp and re-amp it to higher power with a class D power amp
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  • Moe_ZambeekMoe_Zambeek Frets: 3419
    My AK combo weight 35KG. The blue speaker weighs 4.1KG. The amp unit weighs about 15KG. I have a Baltic ply head sleeve about the size of a 1-2u rack that weighs 5.5KG (about half the height of a regular amp head sleeve). I assume that the combo cab weighs around 15KG on it's own. It does have a hinged open/closed back and some solid hardware

    The weight differential between a regular Fender Twin reverb ri and a GB Twin (with pine cab and neo speakers) is 14lbs / around 6KG. 4KG of that is probably speakers, so there's a 2KG saving in weight.   

    I suspect any 1x12 combo cab that weighs less than 3.6KG must be made with something very light.
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  • My rack set up weighs the same as a small planet. 

    I do press ups and occasionally arm wrestle.

    Works for me :)
    'Vot eva happened to the Transylvanian Tvist?'
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  • PALPAL Frets: 515
    If you are trying to make a combo you already have lighter then changing the speaker can help possibly a Celestion
     Neodymium type speaker can work just check your speaker specs. Hope this helps.
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