Mint means mint

Bellycaster

A fair few aren't "mint" while they're still in the Store.

UnclePsychosis

Pictures. Pictures. Pictures.

Its 2022. 90% of British adults own a smartphone. Sharing photos is trivial. 

If you're still relying on totally subjective terms like "mint" then you're doing something wrong. 

Hattigol

♚♚♚♚♚♚♚♚♚♚

MentalSharps

bertie said:

MentalSharps said:

I always took mint condition, when used honestly, as a subjective term, meaning close to perfect, rather than perfect.

mint =  coin "just pressed from the mint"  as in perfect  - anything else is A1 and lower 

I meant that "mint" has always as long as I remember been used in a very casual colloquial sense that if I ever heard someone use the word mint to describe the condition of something I would never associate that with it's dictionary meaning. The word has effectively been redefined in common parlance to mean "better than excellent, but not flawless/perfect". 

The only time I personally would consider it mint in the definition sense is when listed as "absolutely mint condition" or "perfectly mint condition", that make a specific reference to the fact that they genuinely mean mint, and not just "excellent" and giving a sales pitch.

ICBM

MentalSharps said:

I meant that "mint" has always as long as I remember been used in a very casual colloquial sense that if I ever heard someone use the word mint to describe the condition of something I would never associate that with it's dictionary meaning. The word has effectively been redefined in common parlance to mean "better than excellent, but not flawless/perfect".

This is wrong. The meaning of the word has not changed. It means indistinguishable from new condition.

The fact that many sellers misuse it in the way you describe it does not change that.

thebreeze

Po  lo  it doesn’t.

BillDL

CavemanGrogg said:

BillDL said:
Coin collectors would love a Kruger Rand with light signs of usage, ....

No we don't, thats why bullion coins are sold in either capsules ........

My statement was ironic.

impmann

Yup, OTOH the same guys that moan about things not being perfect are the ones that try to squeeze the secondhand price as low as they can... 
Prove me wrong. ;-)

Alex2678

I honestly don’t care whether something is perfect or not unless someone claims it’s perfect. I’d buy a pedal, amp or guitar that was beaten up and it wouldn’t bother me, but if the seller said it was perfect and the pictures looked perfect but it arrived with damage then I’d feel like I’d been deceived. 

I’d even accept a new guitar with some evidence of being handled in the shop, but when a seller chooses to call something mint they’re making a bold claim 

ICBM

impmann said:

Yup, OTOH the same guys that moan about things not being perfect are the ones that try to squeeze the secondhand price as low as they can... 
Prove me wrong. ;-)

Difficult without evidence , but I'm happy to pay the full price for things that are in the best condition. I'd want to pay less if it's not, but no problem with paying even slightly over the odds for something if it's in the kind of condition I want - usually as close to mint as possible, I'm not a fan of knackered stuff. I don't mind a bit of light wear but not what seems to be considered 'cool' now.

maltingsaudio

The more of these discussions I read the less inclined I am to sell anything which isn’t metal.

PAL

Lets be honest we like to go into music shops and try guitars and amps so if we doo that are these items used ! Will they be
  less expensive the answer is no. I have visited music shops and seen some new items that are in not as good condition as
  some of my equipment I have owned for years. Now if I sold anything I already have its going to be less expensive than
   the equivalent new item but in some cases it will be in better condition than some new items ! 
  I should mention I worked in a music store for 10+ years so have seen a lot. 
  The other thing to consider is if you take a guitar for instance the chances are it's been set up and played in a bit so can
  play a lot better than a new guitar with a standard spec set up !
  If you really want mint buy new and never touch the guitar or amp you buy. I think the problem is peoples idea of what is mint 
  condition actually is !

MentalSharps

ICBM said:

MentalSharps said:

I meant that "mint" has always as long as I remember been used in a very casual colloquial sense that if I ever heard someone use the word mint to describe the condition of something I would never associate that with it's dictionary meaning. The word has effectively been redefined in common parlance to mean "better than excellent, but not flawless/perfect".

This is wrong. The meaning of the word has not changed. It means indistinguishable from new condition.

The fact that many sellers misuse it in the way you describe it does not change that.

I suspect it depends in which circles you are encountering the word. But for me cannot be both "mint" and "used". It becomes a subjective term at that point. For collectible items which don't have any usage, it makes sense. But for anything that has moving parts or physical operation it doesn't apply in the truest sense, it becomes a way to subjectively say that in the seller's opinion the usage has not changed it from the true "mint" conditions. As the thread indicates this is something that is clearly frequently stretched very far!

bertie

MentalSharps said:

I suspect it depends in which circles you are encountering the word. But for me cannot be both "mint" and "used". It becomes a subjective term at that point. For collectible items which don't have any usage, it makes sense. But for anything that has moving parts or physical operation it doesn't apply in the truest sense, it becomes a way to subjectively say that in the seller's opinion the usage has not changed it from the true "mint" conditions. As the thread indicates this is something that is clearly frequently stretched very far!

so a guitar can never be mint,   then ? 

LastMantra

Here's one usage I just found. Google it you might be surprised. 

"Mint refers to something that is more than cool, such as awesome. Just like it's usage in describing an item as being in mint condition, if you say that something is mint you are referring to it as being flawless or close to it. The word can be used to describe many types of things including an object, thought, or idea. It is almost always said in an excited tone. Mint used in this manner was most popular in the 1980's, mainly amongst kids and young adults.

Oh my god dude, that's mint!"

MentalSharps

bertie said:

MentalSharps said:

I suspect it depends in which circles you are encountering the word. But for me cannot be both "mint" and "used". It becomes a subjective term at that point. For collectible items which don't have any usage, it makes sense. But for anything that has moving parts or physical operation it doesn't apply in the truest sense, it becomes a way to subjectively say that in the seller's opinion the usage has not changed it from the true "mint" conditions. As the thread indicates this is something that is clearly frequently stretched very far!

so a guitar can never be mint,   then ? 

That depends how far you want to take it I guess. Someone else remarked already in the thread, about potentially usage marks when buying from a shop.

I think it depends on the contract involved with the manufacturer and QC arrangement but in some cases I've heard about, just a member of staff opening the box can make the item a B-Stock / Ex-Demo as it's not "new" anymore. 

But in another case I've heard about (Fender), even when the guitar was damaged by a customer in the shop, the manufacturer told the retailer not to repair and sell it at a discount, and instead sent a replacement as it is still supposed to be a new guitar.

And maybe it depends on the guitar? Presumably customers buying a PRS private stock or a fender relic would have different feelings.

Either way all I'm saying is that it if someone is making a listing and using the word "mint" without any more detail than that, should be taken with a pinch of salt without more clarification.

But like I said, depends on the circles you encounter the word. For me that word is one that has more often encountered it being overused in place of "good", for something that someone likes, or, someone optimistically trying to blag a sale of a common object, rather than a detailed grading of a precious item.

bertie

MentalSharps said:

bertie said:

MentalSharps said:

I suspect it depends in which circles you are encountering the word. But for me cannot be both "mint" and "used". It becomes a subjective term at that point. For collectible items which don't have any usage, it makes sense. But for anything that has moving parts or physical operation it doesn't apply in the truest sense, it becomes a way to subjectively say that in the seller's opinion the usage has not changed it from the true "mint" conditions. As the thread indicates this is something that is clearly frequently stretched very far!

so a guitar can never be mint,   then ? 

That depends how far you want to take it I guess. Someone else remarked already in the thread, about potentially usage marks when buying from a shop.

I think it depends on the contract involved with the manufacturer and QC arrangement but in some cases I've heard about, just a member of staff opening the box can make the item a B-Stock / Ex-Demo as it's not "new" anymore. 

But in another case I've heard about (Fender), even when the guitar was damaged by a customer in the shop, the manufacturer told the retailer not to repair and sell it at a discount, and instead sent a replacement as it is still supposed to be a new guitar.

And maybe it depends on the guitar? Presumably customers buying a PRS private stock or a fender relic would have different feelings

forget the "marks"  you said "used"      -  so every guitar is used   - to string it up and "test"  so by your definition,  no guitar can ever be "mint"  !!  

 

LastMantra

bertie said:

MentalSharps said:

bertie said:

MentalSharps said:

I suspect it depends in which circles you are encountering the word. But for me cannot be both "mint" and "used". It becomes a subjective term at that point. For collectible items which don't have any usage, it makes sense. But for anything that has moving parts or physical operation it doesn't apply in the truest sense, it becomes a way to subjectively say that in the seller's opinion the usage has not changed it from the true "mint" conditions. As the thread indicates this is something that is clearly frequently stretched very far!

so a guitar can never be mint,   then ? 

That depends how far you want to take it I guess. Someone else remarked already in the thread, about potentially usage marks when buying from a shop.

I think it depends on the contract involved with the manufacturer and QC arrangement but in some cases I've heard about, just a member of staff opening the box can make the item a B-Stock / Ex-Demo as it's not "new" anymore. 

But in another case I've heard about (Fender), even when the guitar was damaged by a customer in the shop, the manufacturer told the retailer not to repair and sell it at a discount, and instead sent a replacement as it is still supposed to be a new guitar.

And maybe it depends on the guitar? Presumably customers buying a PRS private stock or a fender relic would have different feelings

forget the "marks"  you said "used"      -  so every guitar is used   - to string it up and "test"  so by your definition,  no guitar can ever be "mint"  !!  

 

When I bought a guitar in a shop I tried the demo one but took a brand new boxed one which I assume was stringed and tested in the factory? 

MentalSharps

LastMantra said:

bertie said:

forget the "marks"  you said "used"      -  so every guitar is used   - to string it up and "test"  so by your definition,  no guitar can ever be "mint"  !!  

 

When I bought a guitar in a shop I tried the demo one but took a brand new boxed one which I assume was stringed and tested in the factory? 

I had a similar experience, a large online retailer made a complete balls up of my order causing a huge inconvenience for me and leaving me out of pocket, so offered me a discount on my next purchase. I asked them to select me one that was symmetrically bookmatched and they said they couldn't do it. My understanding is that is because that line of guitars are QC'ed in house by the brand and sent to the retailer set up and ready to go, to then be sent direct to the customer. What I inferred from that is if the retailer opened the box to select one for me, the one's not selected would have to be sold as B-stock.

I know it's pedantic but I guess that specific scenario where the manufacturer set up the guitar themselves is one that counts in the literal sense of fresh from the mint! 

RaymondLin

Mint means different for different products.

Mint for electronics - Unopened, Factory Sealed
Mint for Instruments - unmarked, even if it's never been opened...if you are the first that has opened it and found marks thenit's not mint.
Mint for cars - that's a whole can of worms, it clearly cannot be 0 miles...it's got to get from the factory line to the back of the lorry somehow.

For general electronics, due to the automated process, it is almost always will be perfect off the press mint.  Because guitars are finished by hand there is risk of it being marked in some ways.  Especially these days with people wanting to know the weight of the guitar so that means the store has to open it to weigh it.

But if I am buying a guitar from a store, and the actual one that i am playing from the wall, I need to check myself in person for marks.  If I spot some marks that is already there then it is right to ask for some money off for "Ex-Display", not "used", same analogy as buying a car from a dealer, the dealer although owns the car, they are not considered an owner like you and I in the chain of ownership.  If I am happy with the condition and finds no marks then I would buy it as Sticker Price, even if it has been played by dozens of people before me.

Or...I can risk ask for one from the back of the warehouse with the proviso that i am buying that one blind.  I don't feel right asking them to open every new one from the back for me to check.

I could do that from my own home if i want buy buying all of them and then keeping one, people do that with clothes all the time with different sizes.