Orange Rocker 15 speaker question

scarry67

Just picked one of these up used. Impressed so far but I noticed that the screws/bolts connecting the speaker seem to be pushing through against the grille quite notably. I don’t know if the grille has been pushed back against them. It doesn’t look like the screws have been changed. Anyone got one - just seeking a bit of reassurance!

PAL

Hi. This doesn't seem right as Orange amps are really well built. Did you buy it used if so has the speaker been changed !
  If it's used the previous owner may have fitted a different speaker then put the old speaker back before selling it but used 
  longer screws ! You could remove a screw and if it's too long buy replacements or contact Orange and give them your amp
  details and they should be able to sell you the right sized screws. First check the speaker is the right one as speaker chassis
  can be different and this might account for the screw coming out beyond the front of the baffle board. Hope this helps.

scarry67

Thanks. It’s the original speaker and doesn’t look like any swop has happened. The seller seemed very honest & open. I’ll remove a screw though to see length. Is there anything on the other side of the speaker mounting board - a bolt for example? Presumably the mounting screw doesn’t just sit there? Obviously I can’t see behind the grille…

ICBM

There will be T-nuts that the bolts thread into, which are almost flush with the surface of the baffle. Personally, I would cut the bolts short by the right amount to ensure that they're fully recessed into the T-nuts (remember to use a black marker on the cut ends so you don't see the shiny metal through the cloth!), unless the difference is so small that a washer under the bolt head will do it. You really don't want any thread poking out, it will damage the grille cloth if it gets pushed onto them.

scarry67

I’m sure it’s the rounded tee nuts that I can feel rather than the screw end. They don’t seem very flush with the baffle but I’ll explore more later… 

scarry67

Plot thickens: 2 T nuts are not flush as they don’t fit properly. I’ve got them out now. Only 3 screws holding speaker in rather than 4. Screws alone have no purchase so won’t secure speaker. Should I try adding a matchstick to the baffle holes to give screws something to twist into or seek out new t nuts/screws? Presumably t nuts are fitted before grille fitted as there ain’t much space to work in…Any advice welcome! 

HAL9000

PAL said:

Hi. This doesn't seem right as Orange amps are really well built.

Came here to say exactly this. The handful of Orange Amps I’ve had any experience of all appear to have been well designed, well built, and use decent quality components.

scarry67

Looks like a previous owner has mucked around with the speaker. It’s in excellent condition but I need new t nuts in baffle or another way of securing the speaker screws… hopefully it’s a simple fix?!

ICBM

scarry67 said:

Plot thickens: 2 T nuts are not flush as they don’t fit properly. I’ve got them out now. Only 3 screws holding speaker in rather than 4. Screws alone have no purchase so won’t secure speaker. Should I try adding a matchstick to the baffle holes to give screws something to twist into or seek out new t nuts/screws? Presumably t nuts are fitted before grille fitted as there ain’t much space to work in…Any advice welcome! 

That's been buggered around with - if the speaker is the original then another one has been in at some point. It sounds like the T-nuts have been pushed out of the holes - they should be clamped tightly into the baffle so they're flat to the surface - if they're not, get some washers or a bit of scrap wood the same thickness as the speaker rim with a hole drilled in it, and use the bolts to pull the T-nuts up tight against the baffle. You shouldn't need to glue them into place, but if the wood is too chewed up you might have to - a small amount of epoxy is probably best.

scarry67

I tried but the t nuts have 4 twisted “shards” that must have been pushed out of baffle and I won’t be able to match them with original holes around screw hole. I think I need some flattish t nuts that I can manoeuvre into the hole grille side. Luckily I do know a local gent who services amps who should know what’s needed. 

ICBM

scarry67 said:

I tried but the t nuts have 4 twisted “shards” that must have been pushed out of baffle and I won’t be able to match them with original holes around screw hole.

You can if you’re careful - turn them until they find the original holes. Or just not bother and let them make new ones - as long as you only do it once it won’t destroy the baffle.

scarry67

Are you supposed to push the tee nuts into the baffle first so that they’re secure or should the action of screwing in the screw twist them into the baffle? And does anyone know if M5 is correct size? Thanks 

ICBM

scarry67 said:

Are you supposed to push the tee nuts into the baffle first so that they’re secure or should the action of screwing in the screw twist them into the baffle? And does anyone know if M5 is correct size? Thanks 

Ideally they should be pressed in first. If you can't because you're working behind the grille cloth, use the bolts to do it - but not with the speaker or you'll bend the rim, they need a lot of force to pull in really tight - use washers or something else solid. M5 is the correct size.

PAL

Sometimes if a T nut has been pushed out it can fall down behind the speaker grill ! so it may still be there so remove the
  speaker and see if it's fallen down behind the speaker grill cloth. If you find it you can relocate it. It can be fiddly but it can be 
 done. Just relocate the little flanges and press them back into position then place the speaker back in position and gently
locate the screw thread. I'm guessing the screws are not the originals so you need to check out what length you need. Hope this helps.

scarry67

Thanks. There’s no room to get my fingers between the baffle & grille unfortunately. However I can’t feel any more t nuts under there and given the lack of space I think they’d be apparent. The 2 nuts I’ve recovered have the “flanges” badly bent inwards but from what forumites are saying there should be 4 little holes around each of the 4 speaker holes on the grille side of the baffle? 

paulphoenix

How about turning the speaker a few degrees and drilling new holes or rear mount using some decent wood screws or threaded inserts? 

on second thoughts forget the threaded inserts

PAL

The T nuts may still be where they are supposed to be ! with the speaker out shine a torch to see if you can see any metal
  thread or gently take one of the speaker screws will screw into any thread that may be there.
  If there is thread in each of the hole then it's just a case of using shorter screws so you could get replacements or cut the 
  exiting ones. If none of this works the it might be best to remove the baffle board then the speaker cloth and do the job
  I have a Fender Princeton and change the speaker and one of the T Nuts came out and like you say it was tight but I got a 
  magnet and managed to get it back to the speaker hole then you should be able to guide it into the hole that was drilled for it.
  The other thing you can do because the screws are too long is to use some washers to stop the screws pocking through the
   speaker cloth. Hope this helps.

scarry67

Huge thanks to all help received

scarry67

…managed to discover 2 t nuts were in place and, after a grim 2 hours, screwed the other 2 back into place. Not perfectly flush but not bad at all. Speaker back in and amp singing nicely. Moral of story is, obviously, have a good look over any used amp even if cheap…

PAL

Glad you managed to sort it out. Well done.

Dave_Mc

scarry67 said:

…managed to discover 2 t nuts were in place and, after a grim 2 hours, screwed the other 2 back into place. Not perfectly flush but not bad at all. Speaker back in and amp singing nicely. Moral of story is, obviously, have a good look over any used amp even if cheap…

Maybe more like, "especially if cheap"! (To be clear- I'm not saying you deserve it if it's cheap, you absolutely don't, just maybe it's more likely that something fishy is going on if it's too cheap!)

Very glad you got it sorted