Apple Mac Mini M1 suitability queries

spev11

Contemplating replacing my Windows PC with a Mac Mini M1. I don't game any more so don't need the power really. I do use it for recording (currently using Cakewalk). My needs are basic, at most it's 4 or tracks, I have no aspirations to write an album or do huge amounts of recording. 
 Would the M1 with 8gb suffice or should I stump for 16gb? Or should I get the last gen Intel version used/refurb ?
ta

octatonic

16GB minimum.
Ideally 32GB or more but I know that model doesn't do it.

I have an 14" MBP M1 Max with 64GB and a Mac Studio M1 Max with 32GB.
I wish I had more RAM in the Studio.

colourofsound

octatonic said:

16GB minimum.
Ideally 32GB or more but I know that model doesn't do it.

I have an 14" MBP M1 Max with 64GB and a Mac Studio M1 Max with 32GB.
I wish I had more RAM in the Studio.

Why do you need more RAM, out of interest? The only reason I can think of is that you're loading samples in plugins. For anyone who isn't using orchestral sample libraries that load into RAM (i.e, band stuff and post-production mixing) 16GB is probably enough right?

GoFish

I'd agree with 16 as a minimum, just to cover software bloat. You never know when you'll need ram or storage, but you will need it.

octatonic

colourofsound said:

octatonic said:

16GB minimum.
Ideally 32GB or more but I know that model doesn't do it.

I have an 14" MBP M1 Max with 64GB and a Mac Studio M1 Max with 32GB.
I wish I had more RAM in the Studio.

Why do you need more RAM, out of interest? The only reason I can think of is that you're loading samples in plugins. For anyone who isn't using orchestral sample libraries that load into RAM (i.e, band stuff and post-production mixing) 16GB is probably enough right?

Applications are quite thirsty these days.
Also, the more you have, the snappier it will be now and the longer you will be able to use that machine.

For instance, here is my memory usage right now on my Mac Pro (main system):



I have Chrome, Mail, Logic, Melodyne and VSL, Zotero, DADMAN (audio router/monitor controller app), Trinnov (Room correction monitor app) and Eucontrol open.
It is using 47GB of physical RAM.
I have a lot of overhead and never need to close one thing down to open up another thing.

If I had 32GB on this system it would all still run but there would be more memory swapping going on which slows things down.

On my modular tracking computer (Mac Studio/32GB) the memory use is this:



I have Chrome, Mail, Logic, VSL, Rednet Control, Trinnov, Eucontrol, Zotero open.
It is using 22.98GB of physical RAM.

I don't have that much overhead here, but enough.

Now I AM using VSL but most of the sample libraries are on other computers, VSL Ensemble networks them all together and I use the RAM/processing of the offline computers to do the calculations, these two systems don't do much.

The M1Max manages memory much better than the 16 Core Xeon Mac Pro but I would still go for more than you need now.
I would have bought the Mac Studio with 64GB if I could have, but I needed it for my research project and the delivery date was well into November when I was ordering. I am likely to sell it once the new Mac Pro comes out.

Now, with both the graphics above the crucial thing here is wired vs app.
Wired cannot be paged/swapped to disk.
So both systems will run with considerably less than 16GB.
The Studio will work ok with 8GB but just have to page a lot.
The Mac Pro won't work well with 8GB RAM with how I have it currently running.

Adding more RAM to a machine is where you get the biggest performance difference- apple have a design approach so that adding RAM is impossible on most of their machines.
You can't use 'external RAM' like you can use an external disk.

IMHO you should always put as much RAM in a new Mac as is possible given all the other factors.

goldtop

Guys! The OP said "basic recording and 4 tracks".

For which the 8GB RAM of the basic model is plenty. A low-latency interface is really all you need (see Julian Krause's YT channel for examples - I think the EVO range is pretty good and affordable).

OP, you may find MacOS' Garageband enough. Apple keeps sneaking more and more capability into it, and with the AI drummer tracks, it's super easy to get a traditional guitar-based song started.

brucegill

Yeah, got to say, I got a fair amount done on a early m1 MacBook with only 8gig ram. Basic recording with 4 tracks - no problem at all.

Bitwig was great with the M1. Ableton now native too. Native Instruments are slow on the M1 having to use Rosetta. Apple Logic is a bag of shite on my Studio M1 Max…. Go figure. 

JezWynd

octatonic said:

Now, with both the graphics above the crucial thing here is wired vs app.
Wired cannot be paged/swapped to disk.
So both systems will run with considerably less than 16GB.
The Studio will work ok with 8GB but just have to page a lot.
The Mac Pro won't work well with 8GB RAM with how I have it currently running.

Adding more RAM to a machine is where you get the biggest performance difference- apple have a design approach so that adding RAM is impossible on most of their machines.
You can't use 'external RAM' like you can use an external disk.

IMHO you should always put as much RAM in a new Mac as is possible given all the other factors.

Is not paging/swapping to disk markedly faster when using SSD? Definitely agree with maxing out RAM on Apple machines at point of purchase if it's for an audio/video/3D workstation. (Thanks Apple ).

octatonic

JezWynd said:

octatonic said:

Now, with both the graphics above the crucial thing here is wired vs app.
Wired cannot be paged/swapped to disk.
So both systems will run with considerably less than 16GB.
The Studio will work ok with 8GB but just have to page a lot.
The Mac Pro won't work well with 8GB RAM with how I have it currently running.

Adding more RAM to a machine is where you get the biggest performance difference- apple have a design approach so that adding RAM is impossible on most of their machines.
You can't use 'external RAM' like you can use an external disk.

IMHO you should always put as much RAM in a new Mac as is possible given all the other factors.

Is not paging/swapping to disk markedly faster when using SSD? Definitely agree with maxing out RAM on Apple machines at point of purchase if it's for an audio/video/3D workstation. (Thanks Apple ).

It is faster but I still don't think it is a good idea to get 8GB for any modern machine.
Pro Tools minimum RAM is 16GB.

octatonic

goldtop said:

Guys! The OP said "basic recording and 4 tracks".

For which the 8GB RAM of the basic model is plenty. A low-latency interface is really all you need (see Julian Krause's YT channel for examples - I think the EVO range is pretty good and affordable).

OP, you may find MacOS' Garageband enough. Apple keeps sneaking more and more capability into it, and with the AI drummer tracks, it's super easy to get a traditional guitar-based song started.

Sure, but for how long?
System usage only goes one way and getting the bare minimum RAM because that is all you need now is just not sensible when it means you have to sell the machine.

The extra 8GB is £200 on the M1 Mini.
You will lose more than £200 when you are forced into an upgrade, or you have to live with a machine that doesn't do what you want it well enough to do it.

spev11

I’ll probably get the 16gb . I’m genuinely not going to do more than the basic recording with it though. I’m frustrated that I can’t upgrade in the future though, may hang fire for a bit and see what happens 

Lodious

I bought a 8GB M1 Mac Mini as a stop gap waiting for the M1 MBP Pros to be launched. I was running Studio One and Ableton for music and Davinci Resolve for editing 4K video when working away from home. Did loads of projects running Arturia soft synths and Helix Native for guitar with the Mac Mini driving dual monitors @1080p. It did (and still does) everything I need it to do and I never bothered to upgrade to the MBP. 

Even with 8GB, these are still really, really capable machines. It's never felt slow. 

How long will it perform at this level? Dunno, but it cost £650 brand new w/edu discount and at that price, I feel comfortable not paying for Apple Care. 

Danny1969

I've said this so much on this forum I'm boring myself but recording audio on a PC / Mac requires a tiny, tiny amount of processing power. Even multi tracking 32 tracks of audio doesn't even tax an older machine. I'm still using a 2007 iMac core 2 duo with 4Gb ram ... it's fine recording and mixing 32 tracks of audio using  Protools LE. Other DAW's may perform better but I'm used to PT so use that. 

Using a PC / Mac to create very complex sounds via virtual instruments can use a lot of processing power  and some reverb and modulation plugins can also be very CPU cycle intensive. 

But recording and mixing actual audio captured from an interface is not a taxing thing for even old computers. 

roberty

I think 16GB minimum as well. With 8GB you'll be leaning on the SSD more for swap space and wearing it out quicker. And RAM demands will only be going in one direction in the medium term. If you were getting a burner to use for just a couple of years maybe 8GB would be alright 

octatonic

Danny1969 said:

I've said this so much on this forum I'm boring myself but recording audio on a PC / Mac requires a tiny, tiny amount of processing power. Even multi tracking 32 tracks of audio doesn't even tax an older machine. I'm still using a 2007 iMac core 2 duo with 4Gb ram ... it's fine recording and mixing 32 tracks of audio using  Protools LE. Other DAW's may perform better but I'm used to PT so use that. 

Using a PC / Mac to create very complex sounds via virtual instruments can use a lot of processing power  and some reverb and modulation plugins can also be very CPU cycle intensive. 

But recording and mixing actual audio captured from an interface is not a taxing thing for even old computers. 

You are right but as you say, once you start stacking plugins it gets pretty spendy.
Very few people multi-track 32 channels at once.
I do and overdubbing acoustic drums mid session with loads of plugins is a fucking nightmare without HDX.

octatonic

Lodious said:

I feel comfortable not paying for Apple Care. 

Bit of a diversion but I wrote this article a couple of years ago regarding Applecare.

 https://www.pro-tools-expert.com/production-expert-1/2020/2/11/applecare-is-it-worth-the-expense

Danny1969

I would always recommend Apple care. In my business of repairing laptops Apple are my biggest earners, with a typical board repair coming in at £150. This is a single point repair, if you read James @octatonic article you can see how investigating one fault can reveal a whole lot of others. 
Remember with the M1 it's a system on a chip, any fault means a new motherboard.

Lodious

I agree, there are times where Apple Care is a good idea / essential, but it's not every situation. On a high-end stuff, totally agree, on cheaper stuff, I'll take my chances.

@octatonic your article is focused on high end gear, and I totally accept your points, but that's my point, at the low end, the argument for Apple Care is much less compelling. 

I'm not trying to argue with anyone here, I'm really just trying to make a case that the 8GB mac Mini is a little powerhouse, and there is strong case for 8GB, no Apple Care. 

spark240

I’m surprised we are even questioning the standard M1 for basic recording…I did some significant mixes on my 2012 i7 mini…the difference with the M1 is massive for me …

octatonic

I am not sure anyone is though, beyond saying 'more memory = more gooder'.

The extra £200 will be quickly forgotten, imho.
Living with a machine that in 2 years time is starting to slow down will be a pain.

goldtop

octatonic said:

I am not sure anyone is though, beyond saying 'more memory = more gooder'.

The extra £200 will be quickly forgotten, imho.
Living with a machine that in 2 years time is starting to slow down will be a pain.

That extra £200 is an OK mic and low-latency interface. (The OP may not yet have those covered.)

IIRC, the speed of your system is paid for by the money you earn from it? So it's entirely sensible that you throw as much £££s as needed at it. Time is money, etc.

The rest of us mortals don't get any income from unused GB/GHz.