Organ Keyboard (Hammond) Help and Tips Needed

Josh_Cosku

I started to listen lots of organ music recently (Jimmy Smith and etc), I always admire the sound of Hammond Organ but for the first time of my life, sound of hammond organ feels more inspiring then guitar oriented music. 

I am considering to buy a keyboard to learn to play organ. I cannot afford the real thing (finance and space vise) and I don't know if this will be a hobby just for a few days. 

I never played any keys, I know some music theory but no muscle memory around keys. I need some help!

Options: 
- Yamaha Reface YC: good sounds but super small - £300
- A cheap keyboard from facebook market place: full size ok-ish sound without drawbars - £100
- Something decent, second hand keyboard with draw bars -  £800-1000 Pounds 

My questions: 
What do you think shall I get? 
I play guitar for many years, do you think that I can learn playing organ quickly? 

Thanks a lot!

stickyfiddle

Organ is relatively easy to get to an intermediate stage, I think. I have relatively little experience but I bought a Roland VR730 just before Christmas and it's absolutely brilliant. 

more

I have recently discovered the joy of keyboards. I don't know anything about  Hammonds , but I sure some of the principles are the same . I have a growing collection of Yamahas. Yamaha has been  making keyboards for over 50  years . Yamaha is constantly improving thier instruments and the entry-level models on the market today are more sophisticated than the top of the range ones made years ago . There are  a few  models that are still in demand and can demand a good price , but for the  beginner, it means  there are a lot of very cheap and perfectly good second-hand keyboards for sale , that are an ideal starting point . There is some interest in old  keyboards  , it is  worth spending time on research , to find the right one for yourself , online, and on YouTube. 

As for playing them, some people play by ear, but learning to read music  is considered a good idea . It takes time to develop the skill to  play anything , it is knowledge and practise. On some Yamaha keyboards, you have jam tracks . You can play along with them , even if you can't actually  play anything, I find it all good fun. 

Stratavarious

Roland VR is cool for the price.. esp. if you plan to gig but there are some very good organ VSTs, inc. free ones, if you have a laptop and then you just need a midi keyboard.  Let you jam over backing tracks and compose stuff in a DAW.

lukedlb

There are some great hammond clones out there. I have a Hamichord, which sounds incredible even though it's 10 years old and has a little computer inside it. The same company, Crumar, now makes the Mojo. However, I fear that's out of production too. Do not buy the Roland VK7 as the glue on the keys melts. the VK8 is better. don't bother with the old Korgs. They were great when they were the only kid on the block but no more.
You don't need a leslie as most hammond clones will have their own. The more I played the hammond, the more I saw how the jazz greats didn't use a leslie. Instead, they used the Chorus setting inside the hammond, usually C2 or C3. And that is where the clones fight to compete for a good chorus setting.
In any case, try and pick up a Mojo. If you have another keyboard, you can use it as a midi source to power the lower keyboard. But I prefer having two sets of keys.
Take a listen to Jimmy McGriff and especially Charles Earland.
Be aware: hammonds, even clones, are big and not appreciated by the good wife. I was a little shocked when I saw how big mine was.... So I got a Fender Rhodes.

Funkfingers

Stratavarious said:

there are some very good organ VSTs, inc. free ones, if you have a laptop and then you just need a midi keyboard.

This is what I came to say.

Start with a DAW plug-in instrument.

IMO, a lot of the interest in Hammond organ performances comes from real time manipulation of the drawbars and the acceleration, deceleration or occasional braking of the Leslie cabinet. Thus, it is desirable to have a remote MIDI keyboard controller with drawbars and assignable mode switches.

stickyfiddle

Funkfingers said:

 

IMO, a lot of the interest in Hammond organ performances comes from real time manipulation of the drawbars and the acceleration, deceleration or occasional braking of the Leslie cabinet. Thus, it is desirable to have a remote MIDI keyboard controller with drawbars and assignable mode switches.

Wis for this bit in particular. That's where Hammonds get interesting imo, which is why you see so many organ-specific keyboards with drawbars included

lukedlb

Real-time manipulation of the drawbar settings may not be necessary when starting out. You can program a half dozen voices and live with those for a while. Having two different voices on two keyboards is important for comping and lead runs however. Using a single keyboard means you effectively cancel the attack when playing with both hands. Yes, you can split the keyboard if using a full 88 to give you room for chords and lead. 

ROOG

If you don't mind the instrument being stationary, i.e. stuck at home, there are lots of fairly decent Organs either for sale for very little or free to the person who takes them away! I have seen lots of very reasonable Yamaha machines from the 70's lately, if I had the room I would probably have a growing collection by now.  Even valve amped tone wheel machines seem to be accessible these days. 

BTW, it used to be reasonably common practice to cut organs in to two parts for transport, the manuals and the base and then clip them together with toggle clamps once in place. Many an older Hammond has suffered this fate, not for the faint hearted this mod. 

I have owned an electronic Hammond and it produced an amazing tone complete with real mechanical Leslie speaker which i found to have a charm all of its own.

I have since used Roland synths and Yamaha / General Music arrangers all of which can do a decent imitation of an Organ.

If you buy a cheap/free one and enjoy the experience you can always move on to the modern portable units, but there is a price to be paid for being able to move the thing.    I have been very tempted by the Yamaha YC61 stage keyboard.

ROOG

Josh_Cosku said:

I play guitar for many years, do you think that I can learn playing organ quickly? 

Yes, from my experience becoming 'useful' at playing the Organ is easier than leaning to play the Guitar. 

Josh_Cosku

@stickyfiddle @more @Stratavarious @lukedlb @ROOG @Funkfingers ;;
Thanks a lot for all the comments really helpful!
I think I will get something soon, share the experience here with the instrument.

ROOG

Good luck @Josh_Cosku , for what its worth I am less drawn to 'strident organ solos' than I am the shimmering sound of an organ filling out the accompaniment. Even though it often sits quietly in the back ground its distinctive sound still muscles through.

I like the sound of organ btw! especially really big pipe organs that make the ground shake. I think I must have been one of the last few who enjoyed the Radio 2  program, 'The organist entertains' every Tuesday at 8pm! Sad old git that I am.

lukedlb

viscount also make the legend organ clone. I prefer the mojo. The recent Hammond is good but very expensive. You don’t need the extra preset keys. Let us know what options you have before you make a purchase. We’ve been there before and there’s no need for you to pay for those same mistakes. 

Funkfingers

The realism of tonewheel organ plug-in simulations could be enhanced enormously by a heated scent diffuser loaded with "special" light engineering oil. 

maltingsaudio

Going completely left of centre, midi pickup and Hammond tone module?

axisus

ROOG said:

Josh_Cosku said:

I play guitar for many years, do you think that I can learn playing organ quickly? 

Yes, from my experience becoming 'useful' at playing the Organ is easier than leaning to play the Guitar. 

Personally I disagree, in that I think it takes a lot of time and effort to get competent at any musical instrument. There are no short cuts really although some people do have a natural talent for some instruments. I have something of a natural talent for knocking out chord accompaniment on a keyboard, but that's not to say that it didn't take a fair degree of learning still, plus there is so much more I could work on if I wasn't so bloody lazy!

Anyway, have a go, you may be a natural! 

Recommended listening - Brain Auger playing live - a Hammond genius!

stratman3142

Funkfingers said:

Stratavarious said:

there are some very good organ VSTs, inc. free ones, if you have a laptop and then you just need a midi keyboard.

This is what I came to say.

Start with a DAW plug-in instrument...

I like GSi VB3-II (link below). It runs as stand-alone as well as a VSTi in a DAW. But you might be able to find some free ones to start with.

https://www.genuinesoundware.com/?a=showproduct&b=44

Nyquist

I learnt a couple of years ago (as a guitarist who had previously played 2 finger synths in bands) and I am now playing in a hammond focused 60s instrumental band. So I'm OK.

I use a Ferrofish B4000 which is a specialised hammond module with a generic midi keyboard and foot pedals (volume and sustain pedal to control the leslie speed). That seemed more sensible than spending 2 grand plus on a Nord which everyone kept telling me to do.

lukedlb

axisus said:

ROOG said:

Josh_Cosku said:

I play guitar for many years, do you think that I can learn playing organ quickly? 

Yes, from my experience becoming 'useful' at playing the Organ is easier than leaning to play the Guitar. 

Personally I disagree, in that I think it takes a lot of time and effort to get competent at any musical instrument. There are no short cuts really although some people do have a natural talent for some instruments. I have something of a natural talent for knocking out chord accompaniment on a keyboard, but that's not to say that it didn't take a fair degree of learning still, plus there is so much more I could work on if I wasn't so bloody lazy!

Anyway, have a go, you may be a natural! 

Recommended listening - Brain Auger playing live - a Hammond genius!

IIRC Auger never used a leslie and he sounded phenomenal 

lukedlb

stratman3142 said:

Funkfingers said:

Stratavarious said:

there are some very good organ VSTs, inc. free ones, if you have a laptop and then you just need a midi keyboard.

This is what I came to say.

Start with a DAW plug-in instrument...

I like GSi VB3-II (link below). It runs as stand-alone as well as a VSTi in a DAW. But you might be able to find some free ones to start with.

https://www.genuinesoundware.com/?a=showproduct&b=44

Yes, that’s what I have running in my hamichord 

borntohang

I've been dabbling for a couple of years including touring as a guitar/keys player using a Roland VR, but jumped on a real C3/122 setup for a session at the end of last year. It's like driving a car compared to playing a digital board! I think that experience gap is why dedicated Hammond enthusiasts are so picky about clonewheels (although try asking a classical pianist about AP action sometime...). 

In regards to your question it's pretty easy to play 'Hammond-istic' keys in a rock context using just a single manual and maybe a swell pedal. If you want to sound like Jimmy that's a full clonewheel setup plus a lifetime of study...