The F1 thread

Heartfeltdawn

Fretwired said:

I agree with you .. and I agree Kimi has been poor for the last two seasons. And I wonder if the lack of a Rosberg is affecting Hamilton. He's someone that needs a competitive driver to push him.

With Rosberg I think it was more than just competition. They were long term friends and rivals, something pretty special in modern F1. Jenson Button was a better driver than Rosberg but the JB-Hamilton relationship was never as friendly nor as fractious as LH-NR. 

Hamilton is a psychologically complex guy by F1 standards. His relationships are different, you don't see him walking around the paddock with a wife and he generally seems really awkward in interviews compared to pretty much everyone. He doesn't strike me as the type who wants or needs to break the record for most wins or titles. I wonder if there is a real love-hate relationship with F1 for him and that he gets a little bit of a downer on when his car isn't clearly the best.  

Heartfeltdawn

Cols said:

The accident: Verstappen’s fault.  He did his usual schtick of moving around under braking, and it cost both him and the team.

I'd love to see the telemetry from both cars over the accident. I thought Max was moving about quite a bit. 

Heartfeltdawn

Fretwired said:

At least this year is exciting - had Hamilton won all four races we'd be calling it a snoozefest. The fact Ferrari are quicker is making it interesting. Good to see McLaren and Williams scoring points.

Quite remarkable to see Alonso gaining points after losing two tyres. Managing to get his car back to the pits on two wheels without completely fucking it was the best bit of driving all day. 

Cols

Heartfeltdawn said:

Cols said:

The accident: Verstappen’s fault.  He did his usual schtick of moving around under braking, and it cost both him and the team.

I'd love to see the telemetry from both cars over the accident. I thought Max was moving about quite a bit. 

 The stewards concluded: "Although the incident had its origins in the moves by (Verstappen), (Ricciardo) also contributed to the incident.”

Max certainly seems to enjoy a very light touch when it comes to reprimands.  I’m sure it has nothing to do with all those Heineken hoardings around the track.

sinbaadi

Max gives the impression that he will risk everything to not let Ricc best him and if Ricc drives with a normal maturity then he can't beat Max.

The crash today was the result of the usual Max defensive arrogance, and the frustration of a driver that wants to make a point to everyone.  He's saying "if I don't give a f##k either look what happens".

Cols

Unless there was radio traffic we didn’t hear, I think Ricciardo was massively patient with Verstappen’s behaviour.

Garthy

Cols said:

Unless there was radio traffic we didn’t hear, I think Ricciardo was massively patient with Verstappen’s behaviour.

I must admit we thought Ricci was going to batter the living fuck out of Max with his crash helmet.

It reminds me of Vettel/Webber in that Marko has a favourite who can do no wrong when it's fairly obvious that Max is driving like an arsehole. I haven't worked out the woulda/coulda/shoulda points loss for Max & RB but it's got to be in the scores of points now. He was in front of Danny in Oz when he spun and DR finished 4th there, he was in front of LH when he clattered him and LH 3rd in Bahrain and he threw away a certain win in China given he was in front of Danny Ric in China when he nerfed Vettel, so call it 60 points just for himself, not the 18 he actually has. Given that the W/S/C game involves docking points from LH and SV and you can see that Max would be right in the title fight if he wasn't such a cock.

Fretwired

Garthy said:

Cols said:

Unless there was radio traffic we didn’t hear, I think Ricciardo was massively patient with Verstappen’s behaviour.

I must admit we thought Ricci was going to batter the living fuck out of Max with his crash helmet.

It reminds me of Vettel/Webber in that Marko has a favourite who can do no wrong when it's fairly obvious that Max is driving like an arsehole. I haven't worked out the woulda/coulda/shoulda points loss for Max & RB but it's got to be in the scores of points now. He was in front of Danny in Oz when he spun and DR finished 4th there, he was in front of LH when he clattered him and LH 3rd in Bahrain and he threw away a certain win in China given he was in front of Danny Ric in China when he nerfed Vettel, so call it 60 points just for himself, not the 18 he actually has. Given that the W/S/C game involves docking points from LH and SV and you can see that Max would be right in the title fight if he wasn't such a cock.

I think Red Bull are looking to the new engine regs. Renault have binned them and whilst they can force Renault to supply them they'll get bugger all support so that leaves Honda. Red Bull are hoping that they can get their own engine via Aston Martin/Cosworth - this will depend on new engine regs and cheaper, simpler engines. They will therefore want to hang on to Vestappen as he is talented and young. If the engine regs don't change much I think Red Bull will quit.

Boromedic

Quite enjoyed the race but it is a lottery, absolutely, and more so than a circuit race would be. However going back to the late 80s and up to early naughties when you had much more unreliability, it's kind of replaced that lottery of a gearbox or engine failure like we used to have. So I suppose it's the same but different maybe, you just have to be in a position to benefit such is the way of things. Things have evened up now for the season like Fret suggested probably, I do prefer places like Montreal where genuine mistakes are punished and it's less "artificial" but the incidents made it more exciting today.

Lewis suggested post race after Grosjean crashed (ridiculous by the way!) Whiting should have red flagged, and then they'd have had a sprint race to the end with more racing laps. Hindsight suggests maybe that's correct but he benefitted and it makes little difference really.

As for Max, I think he crossed the line today again. However Danny Ricc is partly to blame too, after all the plaudits last time for his late moves and touch on the brakes, he messed this one up I'm afraid. His feint right was a bit vague and Max didn't buy it, once he switched to the left side and Max did his usual drifting across it was too late to do anything. It was kind of payback though for Max after earlier in the race, Max is the chosen one though so I think Danny will be off. Love to see him at Mercedes to be honest. My driver of the day would be Le Clerc great performance or Alonso showing once again that he is always there driving the wheels off

Heartfeltdawn

Boromedic said:

Quite enjoyed the race but it is a lottery, absolutely, and more so than a circuit race would be. However going back to the late 80s and up to early naughties when you had much more unreliability, it's kind of replaced that lottery of a gearbox or engine failure like we used to have. So I suppose it's the same but different maybe, you just have to be in a position to benefit such is the way of things. Things have evened up now for the season like Fret suggested probably, I do prefer places like Montreal where genuine mistakes are punished and it's less "artificial" but the incidents made it more exciting today.

I take your point about the turbo engines in the late 80's. Unreliability did cause some unusual results but someone blows an engine, the field behind move up a place. A safety car gets deployed for a crash like Grosjean's, it can both ruin races and promote someone behind and in front of the incident. On street circuits it can add an air of contrivance to the result.

Heartfeltdawn

And so begin the chats...

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/honda-red-bull-engine-supply-meeting-1031628/

Boromedic

Yeah it certainly can give that air of contrivance I agree, I have wondered when I'm wearing my tin hat if Charlie has deployed it occasionally just to mix up a boring race. I'm sure he hasn't but Belgium last year annoyed Lewis among others. 

Cols

Heartfeltdawn said:

And so begin the chats...

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/honda-red-bull-engine-supply-meeting-1031628/

With Marko’s customary tact and diplomacy, that must have been an interesting meeting.

”So, Yamamoto-san.  Your engines are very shit.  Will they still be shit next year?”

Fretwired

Hamilton has reported Vettel to the FIA for his restart from a safety car procedure. He believes his stop start antics could cause an accident and are against the rules.

Cols

Fretwired said:

Hamilton has reported Vettel to the FIA for his restart from a safety car procedure. He believes his stop start antics could cause an accident and are against the rules.

Lewis has an excellent point here; Vettel was driving as unpredictably as possible in the run up to the restart in order to destabilise those behind him.  It’s the prerogative of the leading driver to set the pace after the safety car pulls in, but he took the piss a bit in this case.

Nitefly

Fretwired said:

Hamilton has reported Vettel to the FIA for his restart from a safety car procedure. He believes his stop start antics could cause an accident and are against the rules.

LOL - Wasn't that the very thing Vettel accused Hamilton of in last year's race?

Fretwired

Nitefly said:

Fretwired said:

Hamilton has reported Vettel to the FIA for his restart from a safety car procedure. He believes his stop start antics could cause an accident and are against the rules.

LOL - Wasn't that the very thing Vettel accused Hamilton of in last year's race?

No. Vettel accused Lewis of brake testing him - different.

siremoon

Cols said:

Fretwired said:

Hamilton has reported Vettel to the FIA for his restart from a safety car procedure. He believes his stop start antics could cause an accident and are against the rules.

Lewis has an excellent point here; Vettel was driving as unpredictably as possible in the run up to the restart in order to destabilise those behind him.  It’s the prerogative of the leading driver to set the pace after the safety car pulls in, but he took the piss a bit in this case.

Mr Whiting has reportedly said he didn't see anything wrong with it

chillidoggy

Wolff moaning about debris on the track causing Averagebot's puncture.

Fretwired

chillidoggy said:

Wolff moaning about debris on the track causing Averagebot's puncture.

I think he has a point. TV footage clearly shows Bottas drive over a chunk of debris and seconds later he has a puncture.