The F1 thread

Fretwired

modellista said:

Fretwired said:

modellista said:

Well, speed is still the most important thing at every race track.

No it isn't. It's how fast you go round the track. 

This is going to be a modern classic. 

How so .. how fast you go round the slowest track on the F1 calendar takes skill, a compliant car with a good front end, and knowing when to slow down. Pure speed isn't the most important thing.

sinbaadi

Everyone knows what you mean by speed.
It's no less specific than "how fast" anyway.  Everyone knows in this context it means laptime.  
Straight-line speed, corner-speed, these are specific terms.  Talk about pedantry.

chillidoggy

I agree Monaco in pure terms is a shite track, however I still like watching it because, well, there's something to look at rather than sand.

Hungary is the absolute pits, well below Monaco in my view, and I'm astonished it's still on the calendar every year.

Nitefly

I walked the circuit at Monaco a few years back, and I sure as shit wouldn't want to drive it at racing car speeds...

It's surprising how steep (and narrow) is the climb up from Ste Devote to the Casino, then how tight it is down through the hairpin to Mirabeau - it may not be fast, but it's still balls-to-the-wall driving.

Boromedic

Personally I love Monaco from the point of view of individual driving skill, more so than the racing which obviously usually ends up being a procession. Albeit one with some incidents that spice things up. Seeing them drive at them speeds with no margin for error is breathtaking and always has been. Senna's famous pole lap is absolutely just flawless race car driving, seeing the in car footage is just something else.

Heartfeltdawn

chillidoggy said:

I agree Monaco in pure terms is a shite track, however I still like watching it because, well, there's something to look at rather than sand.

Hungary is the absolute pits, well below Monaco in my view, and I'm astonished it's still on the calendar every year.

Yet Hungary throws up more overtaking. Ever seen a Monaco Grand Prix winner with a load of overtakes as Ricciardo did in the recent past at Hungary? 

Heartfeltdawn

Boromedic said:

Personally I love Monaco from the point of view of individual driving skill, more so than the racing which obviously usually ends up being a procession. Albeit one with some incidents that spice things up. Seeing them drive at them speeds with no margin for error is breathtaking and always has been. Senna's famous pole lap is absolutely just flawless race car driving, seeing the in car footage is just something else.

But that's all they can do. With so little potential to overtake, it's like watching a cycling time trial if nobody was allowed to overtake. 

That it takes skill to drive around there quickly isn't in doubt. But racing is about changing positions, attacking and defending. When the attacking component is rendered close to void, it doesn't make for great viewing. Monaco for me looks very dull (especially after the Nurburgring 24 hour last weekend )

Boromedic

Yeah I know it's divisive, I used to hate it when I was younger. Used to wind me up and I thought it was pointless, as I got older I just accepted it and watched it for the skills on show instead of the racing. I do prefer places like Canada though so I'm with you there.

chillidoggy

Heartfeltdawn said:

chillidoggy said:

I agree Monaco in pure terms is a shite track, however I still like watching it because, well, there's something to look at rather than sand.

Hungary is the absolute pits, well below Monaco in my view, and I'm astonished it's still on the calendar every year.

Yet Hungary throws up more overtaking. Ever seen a Monaco Grand Prix winner with a load of overtakes as Ricciardo did in the recent past at Hungary? 

Will you stop that while I'm busy moaning about my most hated track! FFS.

Cols

Moneyco has lost a lot of its charm for me; the classic Belle Époque architecture is increasingly overshadowed by characterless high rise apartment blocks.  

About the only thing it has going for it is that mistakes are mercilessly punished due to the close proximity of the barriers.  It’s probably a great race to attend as well, given that you’re not separated from the cars by a supermarket car park sized runoff area.

sinbaadi

You know the race at Monaco has much less of the dirty air issue to spoil things?
Ok. It's almost always a procession punctuated with a few events.  Maybe a driver is put under a lot of pressure. There will definitely be passes attempted, and some made, into the chicane.  The start will be chaotic and someone will "have to" cut the first corner to avoid the melee.  There will be slow mo replays of cars bouncing over kerbs and tyres glancing off barriers, and maybe someone will successfully undercut at the pitstops.

I never watch F1 for the racing itself.  There are probably a hundred races happening at the same time which would be more entertaining in that regard.  Monaco has something special enough to be worth watching, though.  A bit of drama at least, and as said before, appreciate the driving even if the racing is dull.

Also it might rain.

That said the historic event last weekend was great.

Cols

There seems to be a recurring theme of Canadian billionaires with marginally talented sons propping up once-great British marques...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/44200260

Heartfeltdawn

chillidoggy said:

Heartfeltdawn said:

chillidoggy said:

I agree Monaco in pure terms is a shite track, however I still like watching it because, well, there's something to look at rather than sand.

Hungary is the absolute pits, well below Monaco in my view, and I'm astonished it's still on the calendar every year.

Yet Hungary throws up more overtaking. Ever seen a Monaco Grand Prix winner with a load of overtakes as Ricciardo did in the recent past at Hungary? 

Will you stop that while I'm busy moaning about my most hated track! FFS.

I have no comeback to that Wislol'd!

Heartfeltdawn

Cols said:

There seems to be a recurring theme of Canadian billionaires with marginally talented sons propping up once-great British marques...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/44200260

Definitely marginally talented and no more. He might get the odd practice run but he's not good enough to replace Stoff, let alone Alonso. 

Garthy

The race team isn't worth a wank but the road car and applied tech is great. TBH calling Mclaren a once great British marque is stretching it tbh, it's always been entirely or part foreign owned.

sweepy

Max and Daniel  1 and 2 in Monaco with maybe Kimi 3rd 

Fretwired

Garthy said:

The race team isn't worth a wank but the road car and applied tech is great. TBH calling Mclaren a once great British marque is stretching it tbh, it's always been entirely or part foreign owned.

Exactly. The road car and tech side is doing very well. To get back to the top in F1 McLaren need more money and better people.

Cols

Heartfeltdawn said:

Cols said:

There seems to be a recurring theme of Canadian billionaires with marginally talented sons propping up once-great British marques...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/44200260

Definitely marginally talented and no more. He might get the odd practice run but he's not good enough to replace Stoff, let alone Alonso. 

I dunno, for £200 million I’m sure he’s expecting a bit more than a few spins in the car on Friday.

I wonder if McLaren issued new shares for this, or if Mansour Ojjeh or the Bahrainis are selling off part of their stake? 

Fretwired

sweepy said:

Max and Daniel  1 and 2 in Monaco with maybe Kimi 3rd 

Theoretically yes, but I bet Max takes out Daniel and Seb at the start, Kimi runs over some debris and gets a puncture and Lewis cruises to a win.

Heartfeltdawn

Cols said:

I dunno, for £200 million I’m sure he’s expecting a bit more than a few spins in the car on Friday.

I wonder if McLaren issued new shares for this, or if Mansour Ojjeh or the Bahrainis are selling off part of their stake? 

His previous record doesn't demand it. Two victories since 2012 is not impressive and even less impressive when you consider the much-mocked Sirotkin's record. It would make McLaren look very foolish to give him a race seat. There is also Superlicence considerations to factor in.