Fusion Licks in Dorian Mode

Bellycaster

I'm analysing this Vid at the moment while learning the licks. These are all B Dorian Licks as stated by the Tutor.

Licks start at 1:05

I don't often learn "Licks" per se, but being influenced in part by bands like Steely Dan and hearing some other notable Fusion Guitarists, I want to start spicing up my improvs a bit.

It's not playing the licks I'm struggling with, I'm just curious at some of the notes he's playing are not in the B Dorian Scale. Bear with me I know there are no hard and fast rules.

I can tell he uses the "F" note which would be the "Blue Note" in the B min Pent and with Dorian being a Minor Mode I guess that fits ok, but he also uses the Bb and Eb notes which are not in the B Dorian Scale, he even uses the C note in Lick 2. Funnily enough though I sometimes use the Eb and Bb(or equivalent) notes when noodling in the 1st Pent Shape.

Are these just passing tones because I notice he finishes on a non scale note on 1 or more licks and Lick 6 finishes on G# which is in B Dorian but is not the Tonic.

What other modes are most Popular in Fusion playing?

Can some of you guys shed a little light on these questions?

Thank you.

 

 

ddlooping

Mainly passing notes, but I have to say there has to be better Dorian licks out there.

ddlooping

A cool backing track for Dorian stuff.

randomhandclaps

I haven't had a chance to watch the video, but -

In fusion Dorian is interchanged (where possible) with Melodic minor - this is where the Bb note comes in as the difference between the A (m7) and the Bb (Maj7) is all that separates the two.  The use of the Eb is exchanging the minor third of Dorian for a major third and giving you the notes of the Mixolydian scale.  Obviously in a lot of dominant blues you will find players exploiting the ability of being able to play major to minor pentatonics, and in this case this is being exercised with Dorian to Mixolydian which is common over dominant chords in both jazz and fusion.

 

For me, I would say the most common modes of fusion are Dorian, Mixolydian, Lydian and Melodic Minor.  These are not exclusive the only ones though.

Bellycaster

@ddlooping

Cheers, but Jeez, I thought I was doing good because I could play (almost) like this Dude.

I'm no expert but I would have considered him quite advanced looking at some of his other stuff.

Thanks for the link to the Backing, I like this guys tracks, I use them a lot, I do ok and can play round the Tonic, but need my playing to be less predictable.

 

Bellycaster

@randomhandclaps

Thanks, a very concise explanation there "Wisdomed". I use the equivalent notes sometimes in Min Pent over certain backing, just seem to know when it sounds good but didn't know why. I have heard of mixing the Min and Maj Pents and think that's probably made me explore those notes.

What would the "C" note be classed as in lick 2, the C note is a "Minor 2nd" when starting on B(Major Scale), but the C# is a tone above B which makes it ?????? in the Dorian Scale. I'm lost on that one.

 

:-S

monquixote

If he is putting extra notes in they aren't Dorian (not that this is a bad thing)

Sticking a major 7th (Bb) in a minor key gets you into "jazz minor" territory and is a classic jazz move.

The flat five is going to be sticking a blues scale bit in

An Eb as a passing note is the "Bebop Dorian." Going from the minor 3rd to the root via a major 3rd passing note is the classic Bebop move. 

A C is a flat 9 so that's going to be fairly ugly unless you are using it as a tension builder or a passing note. I think Django used a lot of flat 9s so it's a bit of a Gypsy thing. 

I don't think riffs are all that useful unless they are in the context of a chord. 

Bellycaster

@monquixote

You must have read my mind. I was looking at your posts in another thread regarding using Pent as a Basis for your scales. It seems the way I am kind of locked into is shapes, not entirely but mainly, the note way comes secondary to me and is sinking in by Osmosis.

I can name notes no probs but when improvising, I tend to look for "road maps" and along with Aural Memory that tends to be my route finder.

I'd probably think the "Note route" if I was to construct a solo though.

Are there any good Books on using the Pent for exploring more exotic scales, it seems the Melodic Minor is something I am gonna have to get to grips with.

The other good thing with Pents is that all CAGED Maj Scale positions are overlayed on them.

Thanks for your time, have a Wiz!

 Edit: Well said about Chord Context, that's something I was wondering about, that's why I don't learn "Bare Licks" hardly ever. Good excercise for the fingers though.

viz

There's not a single Dorian lick in there! Even when allowance for passing notes is given. Licks 3, 6 and 8 are the closest.

Bellycaster

Hi @viz.

Like I said to MQ, this is why I don't learn Bare Licks hardly, cos without the Chord Prog, they are pretty meaningless. I just thought I'd have a quick nosey as I am struggling at how to introduce more "exotic notes" into improvs. I'm still at the mini chromatic passing tone stage and classing that as "Jazzing it up a bit" Lol.

It's a different step to leap from just learning the Major scales and Pents. It's the hardest step yet I've found and I want to go a well grounded route that will get me somewhere. Lick Tutorials hardly seem the way though.

Thanks.

Edit: What is he actually playing in (Mode wise)? He seems to be roughly within the B Dorian Pattern.

viz

He's playing in a mixture of harmonic minor (evidenced by the #7), blues scales with passing notes on the 3rds and 4ths, dorians without the all-important 6th note (ie basically aeolian), some phrygian with that flattened 2nd, some melodic minor (#6, #7) and other bits and bobs. To recognise dorian you really have to hear that what-shall-we-do-with-a-drunyen-sailor-earlie-in-the-morning notes, the #6, nat7, otherwise it ain't dorian.

monquixote

Bellycaster said:

@monquixote

Are there any good Books on using the Pent for exploring more exotic scales, it seems the Melodic Minor is something I am gonna have to get to grips with.

The other good thing with Pents is that all CAGED Maj Scale positions are overlayed on them.

Thanks for your time, have a Wiz!

 Edit: Well said about Chord Context, that's something I was wondering about, that's why I don't learn "Bare Licks" hardly ever. Good excercise for the fingers though.

I don't have anything, though I think the "Khancepts" book is supposed to be good. 

The chord context stuff is really important check Guthries Pirate Modes vid to see that the difference between Carlos Santana and a Pirate is the underlying chord!

ddlooping

Bellycaster said:

@ddlooping

Cheers, but Jeez, I thought I was doing good because I could play (almost) like this Dude.

  

I didn't say he was a bad player, only that there had to be better Dorian licks out there.
Edit: having said that, I don't think licks are the way to go in your case, simply experiment with the "colour" notes of the modes.

monquixote

ddlooping said:

Bellycaster said:

@ddlooping

Cheers, but Jeez, I thought I was doing good because I could play (almost) like this Dude.

  

I didn't say he was a bad player, only that there had to be better Dorian licks out there.

For example ones containing notes from the Dorian mode

Bellycaster

@monquixote

It's a good vid that, I'm kind of ok at understandig what modes are and can play around the tonic etc.

Thanks for the Book tip.

 

Bellycaster

@viz

Drunyen, Lol. If the sailor is Myranda.

Thanks for the description, I know you know you're stuff very well. Another reason I avoid YT "Licks of the Week" etc.

 

viz

Yep guthrie was running up and down the entire c major scale over that d minor/G major rif, hence - classic, beautiful dorian mode.

Bellycaster

@ddlooping

I know you didn't mean that.

Just a bit of Jokey Flabbergastery from me

Bellycaster

@viz, I'm glad you said that as I tend to stick to the notes in the said scale. Should he have just stuck to describing it as Fusion rather than adding the Dorian bit? Are these other notes what makes it "Fusion"   "Jazz/Fusion" etc?

viz

I don't really know what fusion is, but if it's fusing different things together then, yes, he was playing multiple scales in 1 lick, so yes, I reckon that's fusion.

Bellycaster

@viz

I think this is as well

 

B-)