Spiral cut trimmers

PeteC

Hi 
anyone have any experience using Wealden or Whiteside 2”(50mm) spiral trimmer cutters?  

Ive been using a wealden 2” bit to do most of my body and neck template routing but keep getting some tearout on end grain even when Ive sanded very close to the template before routing.  The Wealden bit i am using at the moment has straight cutters and i wondered if its worth investing in a spiral upcut or downcut bit for my router table.   I’m using a heavy Trend T11 in the table - so its not the router causing wobble etc. 

any thoughts much appreciated 

pete

Sporky

I use spirals for everything I can.

Tearout might be going the wrong way vs the grain. Or cutters that aren't sharp enoughyou might also be able to use guide bushes to limit the cut on the first pass or two? 

PeteC

Thanks @Sporky   top stuff.    I hadnt thought about trying a double bearing on the Wealden bit.  I will see if i can do that first.   The two possible spiral bits ive been looking at are just north of £100 each ! 

Sporky

I think I'd check cutting direction first.

Spiral bits are ace, but as you say they're spendy.

I once didn't check a tool path properly and had the CNC machine plunge an £80 spiral straight into the machine bed. No-one was happy about that - fortunately as usual I had the emergency stop in my hand. 

Gizmo

Ive been ordering and using 2 flute spiral bits from XCan on Aliexpress they are only £6 for a 6x52x80 bit! and give a great cut.

I pretty much use just downcut only these days,i have a Up/Down cut bit in the box to try once the plate/ballscrew upgrades are inplace on my Workbee...just waitting on thr HG15 rail to get delivered...

PeteC

Cheers.  You CNC guys are way ahead of me - I’m just using a router plate mounted in my main workbench to do the machining tasks.   I will see if theres anything that looks good on AliExpress.  Havent bought from China before and wonder about quality/reliability when a chunck of carbon steel is spinning fast near my hands !!  I know Wealden and Whiteside are excellent but…..£££

Sporky

I've bought teeny tiny bits (for engraving or PCBs or fret slots) from China via ebay and they've been fine. 

elstoof

Are you doing the whole perimeter in one pass? Could try just taking 1/2” off and raising the bit for the next pass until it’s done to avoid tearout

PeteC

Yeah.  I do that too but would prefer a really clean cut with no machining lines to clean up after routing 

Corvus

I've got a Wealden 2" spiral with top & bottom bearings, not had any tearout so far doing full blank depth, without climb cutting - I do cut close and run round the spindle sander to leave 1-2mm for the router. So it takes longer to sneak up on the final size than to do the final routing.
My builder pal uses a similar one from Radian which he likes a lot.

GSPBASSES

I use the Wealden 19mm downcut cutter, I have one with a 21mm bearing and one with a 19mm. I bandsaw the body blank fairly close to the line, and then go round with the 19mm cutter with the 21mm bearing followed by the cutter with the 19 mm bearing. This gives a very clean cut and very little sanding has to be done after.
 I also use a 12.7mm triple helix downcut cutter on my pin router, the first cut is done with a 14mm pin, then the final cut with a 12.7mm pin. This gives a super smooth finish, but these cutters or exceedingly expensive. However, this is offset by the time they save on any sanding you do after the router cut. It's also worth pointing out that spiral cutters last considerably longer than normal straight cutter.

PeteC

Thanks fellas.   

I’ve been using the Wealden 2” multi trim bit that has 2 cutters - it’s a semi spiral bit with bearings at both ends.  I think perhaps I should try using it and flipping my template over when I get a change in grain direction.  I bandsaw, then spindle sand close to the line - typically c1 to 1.5mm but I am still getting the bit bite into the grain when doing things like Tele headstocks when it’s figured maple and the grain changes a lot.  In my latest tele neck I had a tear out at the upper headstock curve and had to graft a closely matching piece of flamed maple back on for a fix. 

I’ve seen a good whiteside 2”  spiral up cut bit for £100 which would be good as inverted in the router table it would also pull the workpiece down to the work surface 

ps - any good tips on keeping bits sharp or re sharpening? .  I think my 2” Wealden but might be going a bit blunt now. 

Cheers 

Simo

The 2'' Whiteside spiral cutters are excellent. I cut necks and bodies in one pass (no spindle sanding, just cut close to the line), with practically zero tear-out. It's a big cutter but it actually feels very safe to use in a router table.. just make sure to adjust the speed control.

https://u.cubeupload.com/simo/hw0rrh.jpeg

PeteC

Yes @Simo   thats the one I am looking at.   Nice looking finish ( and guitar ) 

PeteC

Simo said:

The 2'' Whiteside spiral cutters are excellent. I cut necks and bodies in one pass (no spindle sanding, just cut close to the line), with practically zero tear-out. It's a big cutter but it actually feels very safe to use in a router table.. just make sure to adjust the speed control.

https://u.cubeupload.com/simo/hw0rrh.jpeg

One question @Simo    With the whiteside cutter what sort of speed do you use? .  I am
guessing slower for the larger bit ?   I am using a beefy Trend TK11 tablemounted router which has 8-20k rpm 

Simo

Yes, slower speeds are recommended for large/long bits. You'll soon know if it's too fast, you will hear and feel the vibration. At 20,000 rpm you will probably be OK at full speed. My Bosch runs at 24,000 rpm at max and I adjust the speed down from a 6 (full speed) to at least 5.. so I'd guess it's somewhere around 18,000-20,000 rpm. 

Another tip: Keep your feed rate nice and slow. If you get ripples on the surface, then you're feeding it too fast.

PeteC

Brilliant - thanks @Simo ;

premium bonds came good with just enough of a win today so 
ive ordered the whiteside spiral cutter !