'72 Telecaster Deluxe - Classic Series vs Vintera? (Now: NGD!)

Alexlotl

I once again find myself GASsing for a '72 Telecaster Deluxe, an itch I have had many times but never quite scratched. Things have changed quite a bit since I was last here though, with Fender making proper CuNiFe Wide-Range Humbuckers again, and selling them as replacement sets.

I'm cheap by nature, so definitely something second hand, but I'm enough of a snob that I want Fender on the headstock rather than Squier. Based on that, I think my best options are the Mexican ones:

• Classic Series '72 Telecaster Deluxe - MiM, apparently decent bodies but bad electronics. 12" radius "Vintage C" neck, medium jumbo frets, big Strat headstock.
• Vintera 70s Telecaster Deluxe - MiM, better pickups but not proper CuNiFe, 9.5" radius "Thin C" neck, medium jumbo frets, big Strat headstock

Anyone have experience with either (or ideally both) of the above? Fairly sure I remember Alex Kapranos of Franz Ferdinand saying the Classic Series was as good as his original 70s model once Creamery Pickups were installed, but I've not heard much about the Vinteras.

I think I'd probably yank the pickups out anyway and put either Fender CuNiFe's in, or the Creamery WRB-voiced ones, so I'm not too bothered by the differences there. From what I can see around the web, the original neck radius of the '72 deluxe was often reported as being 12", but everyone who has measured a vintage one says it's actually 9.5", so perhaps the Vintera is more period-accurate.

I'm ruling out the Vintera II, as it's brand new and I don't want a trem. Also ruling out the Road Worn model, as nitro is a faff and I don't like relicing. If there are any other interesting specials or FSRs I've missed, let me know.

willo

Aren't the WRHBs too big for a normal HB routing?

Alexlotl

willo said:

Aren't the WRHBs too big for a normal HB routing?

Fairly sure both those models have WRHB shaped pickups, but they’re just conventional humbuckers in reality. It should be possible to drop the real ones in as replacements. 

borntohang

The Classic is an excellent guitar. Really nice neck and in truth felt more playable than the vintage example I've played. We bought a secondhand one as the "workshop demo" guitar because it played so nicely in the shop. 

Sadly after much testing I've decided the pickups are terrible: unpleasantly microphonic but somehow dull at the same time. I'm sure 1M pots would liven it up a bit, but you may as well budget for the upgrade if you're going there. 

p90fool

Have you ever played real 70s Fender CuNiFe magnet pickups? They're really not that special, being unavailable for a few decades did wonders for their mythology in my opinion. 

If you've tried them and love them fair enough, go for it, but I never liked them and never heard anyone famous get anything notable out of them either. 

JezWynd

p90fool said:

Have you ever played real 70s Fender CuNiFe magnet pickups? They're really not that special, being unavailable for a few decades did wonders for their mythology in my opinion. 

If you've tried them and love them fair enough, go for it, but I never liked them and never heard anyone famous get anything notable out of them either. 

The pickups they used in the Classic series a few years back (and also in the Squier version) sounded very good. They had a single coil’s chime and attack, while being noticeably smoother and less noisy.

willo

Alexlotl said:

willo said:

Aren't the WRHBs too big for a normal HB routing?

Fairly sure both those models have WRHB shaped pickups, but they’re just conventional humbuckers in reality. It should be possible to drop the real ones in as replacements. 

Ah, that should be handy. Makes sense!

Also, @p90fool I'd be interested to hear more about your experiences with the originals. I was really interested in the rereleased Cunifes because, in the videos I'd heard they sounded great - very clear, but perhaps a bit too bright?

Alexlotl

p90fool said:

Have you ever played real 70s Fender CuNiFe magnet pickups? They're really not that special, being unavailable for a few decades did wonders for their mythology in my opinion. 

If you've tried them and love them fair enough, go for it, but I never liked them and never heard anyone famous get anything notable out of them either. 

To be fair, I haven’t, I’m going on reputation on the whole. I’ll have a go on an American Pro II next time I’m up at Gear4Music, if they have one.

As for famous players, I love Alex Kapranos’ work. Can do that David Byrne spiky rhythmic thing, but get some beefier sounds on the big riffs. I appreciate FF are a marmite band, though!

p90fool

willo said:

Alexlotl said:

willo said:

Aren't the WRHBs too big for a normal HB routing?

Fairly sure both those models have WRHB shaped pickups, but they’re just conventional humbuckers in reality. It should be possible to drop the real ones in as replacements. 

Ah, that should be handy. Makes sense!

Also, @p90fool I'd be interested to hear more about your experiences with the originals. I was really interested in the rereleased Cunifes because, in the videos I'd heard they sounded great - very clear, but perhaps a bit too bright?

I found them bright but still kind of lifeless really, a bit of a halfway house that vintage Firebird pickups do better.
Obviously that's just me as lots of people love them, and as @Alexlotl says, Alex Kapranos is a very good shout.

TheBigDipper

p90fool said:

Have you ever played real 70s Fender CuNiFe magnet pickups? They're really not that special, being unavailable for a few decades did wonders for their mythology in my opinion. 

If you've tried them and love them fair enough, go for it, but I never liked them and never heard anyone famous get anything notable out of them either. 

I played a fair few about 8 years ago when I was intending to buy one. They do sound different to the generic HB and I quite like them. However, I bought a 2015 MIM Tele Deluxe FSR (for how it played) and replaced the electrics. I replaced the wiring with a loom from a US-company (nice pots and switches, proper values) and bought a pair of WRHBs from The Creamery. Not CuNiFe, but voiced close enough that I'm happy. 

Famous players? Graham Coxon and Thom Yorke have both used them at Glasto appearances.

Alexlotl

Alexlotl said:

To be fair, I haven’t, I’m going on reputation on the whole. I’ll have a go on an American Pro II next time I’m up at Gear4Music, if they have one.

Actually, looks like the American Pro II doesn’t have CuNiFe either, only the American Vintage II. I forgot how confusing Fender’s model names are at the top end of the line. 

Cranky

I have a ‘72 Reissue Tele Deluxe from ca. 2008.  Not a Vintera, but I’m not sure if it’s a Classic series either.  It’s awesome and comfortable, though.

The WRHBs were physically different than regular humbuckers.  I ordered a new pickguard when I changed out my WRHBs.  They were too muddy to me.  But everything else about the guitar is great.

Pabcrane

p90fool said:

Have you ever played real 70s Fender CuNiFe magnet pickups? They're really not that special, being unavailable for a few decades did wonders for their mythology in my opinion. 

If you've tried them and love them fair enough, go for it, but I never liked them and never heard anyone famous get anything notable out of them either. 

I don't know if they would count for you as famous but two guitarist who I like and have put out at least a few albums and played  gigs with old Wide Range pickup'd guitars Jonny Greenwood of Radiohead and Lee Ronaldo of Sonic Youth.

They're a bit older I suppose but pretty popular with my friends and bands I've played with.

(Unfortunately I've only tried one guitar with them - an old Tele but I only played it for a few minutes after soundcheck so I can't comment on how good the pickups are from experience. But those players above have made some great music)

TheBigDipper

Pabcrane said:

p90fool said:

Have you ever played real 70s Fender CuNiFe magnet pickups? They're really not that special, being unavailable for a few decades did wonders for their mythology in my opinion. 

If you've tried them and love them fair enough, go for it, but I never liked them and never heard anyone famous get anything notable out of them either. 

I don't know if they would count for you as famous but two guitarist who I like and have put out at least a few albums and played  gigs with old Wide Range pickup'd guitars Jonny Greenwood of Radiohead and Lee Ronaldo of Sonic Youth.

They're a bit older I suppose but pretty popular with my friends and bands I've played with.

(Unfortunately I've only tried one guitar with them - an old Tele but I only played it for a few minutes after soundcheck so I can't comment on how good the pickups are from experience. But those players above have made some great music)

Yes! A '70s Starcaster. Forgot that. I've never played one of those. 

guitarcookie1

The pickups in my Vintera Tele Deluxe are quite dark sounding, they need a bit of eq to perk them up a bit. 

mike257

I used to have the Classic series '72, mid 2000s model. Easily as good a guitar as my USA Standard Tele of a similar age. Possibly the nicest neck of any guitar I've owned. Only parted with it to pay for a big mechanic bill when an engine blew itself apart and have lived with regret ever since. I even followed the guy I sold it to on eBay just in case he ever put it back up for sale!

Alexlotl

NGD incoming! 

Whitecat

I’ve got a Jazzmaster with the reissue CuNiFes and I absolutely love them. They actually sound more like humbucking versions of JM pickups than straight-up HBs. Brighter and sparklier. I wonder if by virtue of the “new” magnet material they are a little better sounding than a vintage one which will have faded somewhat. 

Alexlotl

Here we go then:

2019 Vintera 70's Telecaster Deluxe in Vintage Blonde. Found on eBay for £600 with a Fender hardcase and free local delivery, which seemed reasonable. Very lightly played, still has the stickers on the neck plate and bits of the protective film under the pickguard screws. Apparently I'm it's third owner, though - previous guy had bought it pretty much unplayed off an Italian guy, then didn't really play it himself. Hopefully I can give it a more fulfulling life!

First impressions:

• The neck is very nice - spec wise it's a 9.5" "Thin C", something which seems to be unique to 72s Deluxes and Thinlines, but in practice it's pretty much a modern C. It feels slightly thicker, but that could be the gloss finish compared to my rosewood-board US Standard Tele.
• Speaking of comparisons to my existing Tele, this one is notably heavier, clocking in at 8lb 7oz (3.85kg), compared to a featherweight is 6lb 13oz (3.10kg) for my US Standard.This doesn't seem to be particularly heavy for these models, though - I'm guessing the wood difference (Alder for the Vintera, Ash for my US Standard), finish difference (period-correct thick Polyester vs thin Polyurethane) and that chonky headstock account for a lot of it.
• The colour is nicer than anticipated, much more yellow than Olympic White, probably closer to TV Yellow than anything else.
• The pickups are better than expected, and don't sound congested and treble shy like a lot of humbuckers do to my ears. I can certainly live with them for the moment. They certainly do a great job of driving my amp and pedals.
  
• The fit and finish was mixed - the fret ends are decent and there are no cracks in the finish, but the bridge doesn't line up particularly well with the string holes drilled in the body, while my US Standard is bang on. I wasn't sure if the bridge wasn't wonky when it arrived, with the low E string threatening to slip off the neck and awful intonation, but pinching the saddles together, reseating the strings and roughing out the intonation seems to have brought it comfortably back into tolerance (see pic below).
• The throw of the pickup selector switch feels kind of loose and unsatisfying - not sure if this is what they're all like, I've never had one of this type. The string trees were a mess and one of the volume knobs was rattling, but both were easy fixes.
  

I can certainly see where some of the price difference between a US and Mexican Fender goes - time and care.

I also picked up this relative bargain on eBay, as I'm keen to get this back to vintage spec:

That said, the existing pups are good fun, so I'm happy to play the waiting game for a cheap CuNiFe neck pickup, then I'll book it in to Wintaura in York for new pups and pots (and maybe a new pickup switch and a double-check on that bridge alignment).