*Edit - BAS!* SUB vs SUB

guitargeek62

I'm looking at buying a bass next month and have pretty much settled on a stingray of sorts. Because it's my first bass (I've borrowed a couple before, but never owned one) I'm not looking to spend a fortune, and the Sterling SUB series seems to fit the bill nicely. I've had a quick play on one in Wunjo too and liked the feel of the neck, plus Thomann are doing them for £250 atm which seems hard to beat.

My only question is, what would I be losing by settling for the Sterling, rather than holding out for a used S.U.B. - assuming I can find one? As far as I can tell, the USA ones were slab bodies too?

@DrBob + @ThePrettyDamned as I believe you both own/owned one of the MM SUBs

*edit* As an outside option, I also loved the look of the FleaBass too, but I seem to recall a lot of disappointment about them so they're probably worth skipping?

ThePrettyDamned

Get a used sub.

Mine was a bit heavy, but it sounded amazing, was reliable, awesome neck, great tones... Solid.

Do regret selling

ThePrettyDamned

Yup, slab body.

guitargeek62

Don't suppose you've tried one of the Sterlings to compare it to? I'm not the biggest fan of slab bodies (hence no teles, and why my mustang is getting a new body) so that could being a problem in the long run if I went for a SUB.

mart

guitargeek62 said:

....

*edit* As an outside option, I also loved the look of the FleaBass too, but I seem to recall a lot of disappointment about them so they're probably worth skipping?

Yep, I've heard only bad things about the flea bass. 

I've not tried either sub, but I have heard a lot of good about the originals.

meltedbuzzbox

I would suggest you avoid the Vintage copies. Super heavy and not all that great to play. (I was very surprised as you usually cant go wrong with a Vintage for the money etc).

Have you looked at the Squier P Bass and the Jazz bass?

I was about to go for the SUB myself but a deal presented its self and I ended up with this 

http://www.gear4music.com/Guitar-and-Bass/Squier-by-Fender-2013-Vintage-Modified-70s-Jazz-Bass-Natural/UBN?origin=product-ads&utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_term=&utm_campaign=PLA+Shop+-+Squier&utm_content=Qfv9VIB0|dc_pcrid_52859305639_plid__kword__match__&gclid=CIz1_dmEucECFWYTwwod_F4ApQ

Its a great playing bass. I am not a proper bassist but for recording this thing is really great 

John_P

I had a US sub for a while - it was certainly very well made and sounded great but quite heavy and not as comfortable as my geddylee jazz so I eventually moved it on.   I haven't looked hard but they don't seem to come up very often.   
I might be fussing but it seems a shame to devalue the brand a little with the sterling models - although they do look good value if the quality is there.
OLP might be worth looking at if you see one - I've got an olp guitar that I stripped down, refinished and rebuilt and it really is very good - amazing for the money.
If I was looking for a new bass (I'd love a warwick thumb, but funds won't allow it),  I would check out the J & D models at digital village - they look fantastic value for around 100 - if they did a nice looking 5 I'd grab one.

ThePrettyDamned

Okay, more detailed.

The USA subs are generally heavy, but balance nicely on a strap. 2 types - sub and sub sterling. The sterling (which I had) has 22 frets and a smaller body (= lighter and better balanced, in general). The regular were slightly larger and had 21 frets.

The passive ones sound lovely, but the best of the bunch is the 2 band active. I had the 3 band active, and while it's very powerful, I found I preferred the sound of the 2 band my mate had. This is actually true of all USA musicman models I've played. You will sound brilliant with any pickup/eq option though.

The newer ones are nicer looking in general, but still heavy. I feel the USA sub is a future classic so I'd go for that. the finish is kinda thick, but dings okay and looks cool when aged.

The white and black look best I had blue, my friend has a red one and both look surprisingly much better in the flesh, but the scratchplate looks let them down (whereas they really suit the white and black models).

Warts and all that was - I love them. They're the best basses you'll find for less than 500 quid I reckon.

The necks are great!

DrBob

My Bass is an S.U.B Sterling so it's the USA made one but it's based on the Sterling as opposed to the Stingray so the body is a bit smaller and it features a 3 band active EQ as opposed to the 2 band on the S.U.B. Stingray.

I absolutely love mine. I did initially wonder if the matte black paint finish on the back of the neck might be a problem, I do have a problem with sweaty hands getting a bit 'draggy' on painted necks, especially glossy ones but I've never had an issue with this one.

I had the chance to compare it to my friend Matt's full blown EBMM Sterling and whilst his one certainly looked prettier with the flamed maple neck & high gloss finish, contoured body in terms of playability & sound there really wasn't a lot in it and certainly not the difference the purchase price would suggest.

With respect to the slab body ? Well prior to having the S.U.B. I did have an OLP Stingray which was an earlier attempt at a licensed copy of the EBMM guitars, in fact @Jetfire had it after me and that did have the forearm & rub cage cut on it.
I don't know if it's the reduced body size of the Sterling against the Stingray or if it's that I don't move my forearm anywhere near as much when playing a Bass rather than a guitar but I've not noticed the edge of the body digging into my forearm/wrist when playing the a Sterling whereas I do find it to be a bit of an issue when playing my Axis guitar.. Mind you that said the Sterling does have a rounded over edge on the body whilst the Axis is bound..

Anyway, rambling a bit now. I've not tried the current range of Far Eastern SUB basses but would say that if you can pick up a US one they are proper bits of kit and will quite probably be all the bass you'll ever need..

And if the lack of contours bother you have at it with a file !

DrBob

Also it doesn't help that 'Sterling' is used as a model name for a USA EBMM bass AND a whole line of guitars & basses made overseas.
Also having two entirely distinct product lines called 'SUB' seems messy....

guitargeek62

Agreed about the naming - seems frikkin ridiculous!!!

ThePrettyDamned

@drbob has summarised my thoughts exceedingly well.

They're just solid basses and sound great, passive, 2 band active (!) or 3 band active.

Sterling if you want a smaller body and 22 frets, regular otherwise.

Proper, proper bits of kit. The neck finish is amazing - it's probably a poly, but it's thin and satiny but also smooth and... Glossy almost? Anyway, very smooth and easy playing, and my hands sweat a lot.

Ernie Ball guitars have incredible neck finishes, across the range. Go USA! Plus, future classic

guitargeek62

SUB Sterling would be ideal, except for the slab! :O

I really think that'll be the deal-breaker for me, plus I can save the moneys towards a bass amp/USB interface or something for the new one too I guess.

@Meltedbuzzbox - yep, big fans of the VM & CV series. I was planning to get a VM P-Bass (or a Mikey Way Mustang one if my missus had any say in it!) but I've always liked the look of the Stingrays, and Flea made them sound pretty damn good early on with the Chilis...!

meltedbuzzbox

Yes Flea is the daddy on the bass. 

I seem to recall he moved to modulus around the time his gear got stolen.

I think all of Stadium Arcadia was recorded on a Jazz bass. 

I think its all about BSSM for his bass though with a lot of honourable mentions everywhere else. 

guitargeek62

I'd love a modulus, if only for the purdy neck, but they're well beyond my abilities for now at least - assuming I could even find one!

ThePrettyDamned

With flea, it's all the in technique man

But if you don't want a slab body, a squier or used fender is a good way to go.

Also, peavey make a mean bass. A used Cirrus can be a bargain. My friend regularly gigs his super cheap millennium, he's changed the pickup and Jack socket but everything else is solid.

I'd still take the musicman - but I understand why you're not keen. If you know someone, or are handy, you could take some files and rasps to it... lose all resale value sadly, but actually they could benefit massively from being contoured, it would lose weight. A refin in nitro and they'd be bloody stunning...

Obviously, money wise, this might not be viable but I might start looking.

fretmeister

guitargeek62 said:

I'd love a modulus, if only for the purdy neck, but they're well beyond my abilities for now at least - assuming I could even find one!

Especially since they went bust and the used money is now higher than the old new price.

Anyway - the USA SUB is a far better instrument. It really is a US Ray / Sterling in a cheaper suit.

The USA SUB Ray has the chunky P type neck and the USA SUB Sterling is much closer to a jazz neck.

I hate slab bodies too - so I'd get a Sandberg Basic instead. It's a German version really - they come up used at about the same money as a USA SUB

ThePrettyDamned

fretmeister said:

guitargeek62 said:

I'd love a modulus, if only for the purdy neck, but they're well beyond my abilities for now at least - assuming I could even find one!

I hate slab bodies too - so I'd get a Sandberg Basic instead. It's a German version really - they come up used at about the same money as a USA SUB

I've never seen one of those, but that's a really good call - I've wanted to try one for a while. 

DrBob

Mate, I really think you owe it to yourself to have a go on a slab body US SUB Bass before you dismiss it. The point I would make is that depending upon how you play Bass the way your right forearm interacts with the instrument is completely different to when you play guitar. From personal experience I would say that the 'strummy' action of a guitarist rooted at the elbows is miles apart from how you would approach a bass, particularly if you're playing finger style where you would maybe root your hand to the bridge or pickup and just move your fingers. Just sayin, you know ? ;-)

mike257

Another reccomendation for the old USA SUB from me. I own a "proper" Stingray, used to have two, and tried the SUB not long after I bought them. There's very little in it tonally. It's the real thing, just missing the luxury trimmings. Their reputation means they seem to ae holding their value in the used market too.

guitargeek62

Hmm, fair point as ever @DrBob, hadn't actually considered that I'd be playing it very differently!

Might just hold out for a US one then, could always sell it on witoit losing anything/much that way if it came to it. Cheers all