Attenuate me

Fiddlesticks_

Yeah, another attenuator recommendation thread…
I recently picked up a Fender ‘65 Princeton Reverb. I love it, the only issue being that I can’t really go past 2-3 on the volume without it being louder than I’d like at home. I’d like to get it to 4-5 as I’ve found that gives me the little bit of breakup I want, but I’d like it to be only as loud as 2-3 on the dial.

I understand that attenuation is going to affect the tone, but I’d like something that does so as little as possible. A bit of research has told me that reactive attenuators apparently yield the best results over resistive, but that it might not be so important on lower powered amps. Is this true?

I’m not really interested in any other features for silent recording or playing through headphones etc., I just need attenuation.

Budget wise I don’t want to be going too far over £200 (but may consider going further for something that will do what I want exceptionally). New or used is fine.

fretmeister

I've tried a bunch of attenuators and I thought the Weber Mini Mass was the best with Fender amps, and also worked very well with Marshalls too.

Stupidly I sold mine, but I'd have one again if I ever buy another valve amp.

nero1701

I've had nice experience with the elevenator on my old 68 princeton and now my 65 deluxe

bertie

Fiddlesticks_ said:

Yeah, another attenuator recommendation thread…
I recently picked up a Fender ‘65 Princeton Reverb. I love it, the only issue being that I can’t really go past 2-3 on the volume without it being louder than I’d like at home. I’d like to get it to 4-5 as I’ve found that gives me the little bit of breakup I want, but I’d like it to be only as loud as 2-3 on the dial.

I understand that attenuation is going to affect the tone, but I’d like something that does so as little as possible. A bit of research has told me that reactive attenua

there ya go

munckee

I’ve got a behringer ps1 power soak which cost me £60 used I think. I use it with my 65 Princeton and it’s awesome.  

allen

Things like the Behringer are a simple l-pad which can be made DIY for very little money and the results are excellent. There's a thread on here somewhere with full instructions.

I say that because I had to do some maintenance on my very expensive, hand-wired, point to point Carr amp that has an attenuator. When I opened it up I was surprised to find an l-pad - and it has always been superb.

Revolutions

I picked up one of these 2nd hand for my Princeton, cost about £100. It's pretty much darn perfect: https://www.plugandplay.kingeshop.com/Power-Attenuator-50-Multi-impedances-cbaaaabia.asp

The Harley Benton attenuator is supposed to be great for the money, too.

dazzajl

Another Webber Mini Mass user here and I’d happily recommend it. It seems as good as any ridiculously expensive ones I’ve heard and if you’re just trimming the noise back a bit, the amp should still sound great. 

ICBM

I like the THD Hotplate with Fender BF/SF-type amps, but it's probably overkill for a 12W amp unless you need it for larger ones as well.

Dodge

I've had a few Weber MiniMASS attenuators and they'll probably be fine with a PR, but they're very 'underbuilt' and I've heard of a fair few fail with higher wattage amps.

For a step up from the usual resistive attenuatos (Jettenuator and the Harley Benton clones) I do like the sound of the Palmer PDI06 Power Pads.  They sound good and have inductive elements in the ciruit.  Circa £100 should get you one.

Fiddlesticks_

Thanks for the suggestions everyone. There was a used Minimass for sale in the UK so I’ve gone for that, as it had no fewer than 2 recommendations and seems that they’re not readily available otherwise.

Fiddlesticks_

Dodge said:

I've had a few Weber MiniMASS attenuators and they'll probably be fine with a PR, but they're very 'underbuilt' and I've heard of a fair few fail with higher wattage amps.

For a step up from the usual resistive attenuatos (Jettenuator and the Harley Benton clones) I do like the sound of the Palmer PDI06 Power Pads.  They sound good and have inductive elements in the ciruit.  Circa £100 should get you one.

Pulled the trigger before seeing this, hopefully I don’t have any trouble.

Yeah I liked the look of the Palmer PDI-06 and also the Harley Benton PA-250. I’ll look their way again if the Weber doesn’t work out.

ICBM

Fiddlesticks_ said:

Pulled the trigger before seeing this, hopefully I don’t have any trouble.

Yes, the MiniMass is a bit flimsy compared to some of the bigger and more expensive ones, but it will be fine with a Princeton.

rze99

I've used attenuator son all my valve amps sine the 90s. I have Weber and THD Hot Plate. They both do a very good job especially for recording. Live, they are very useful to get the right breakup at the audible volume you want. Great for highly controlled stages. Of course, you miss the sheet physics of unrestrained volume but, hey, that's the trade off. 

Fiddlesticks_

Ok so the one I bought was advertised as 50w but there’s a sticker on the back of it that says 25 watts (I should have noticed that on the pictures but here we are).

Obviously that’s still twice what the Princeton puts out, but given that they’re known to be a bit flimsy will this 25w be any more likely to give me trouble? 

Just want to check as I worry a lot about these details for some reason.

ICBM

Fiddlesticks_ said:

Ok so the one I bought was advertised as 50w but there’s a sticker on the back of it that says 25 watts (I should have noticed that on the pictures but here we are).

Obviously that’s still twice what the Princeton puts out, but given that they’re known to be a bit flimsy will this 25w be any more likely to give me trouble? 

Just want to check as I worry a lot about these details for some reason.

This is a common problem with attenuators - because a fully-overdriven amp can put out twice the rated clean power, an attenuator rated for x watts of actual electrical power input can only be used with an amp of x/2 watts or less. In my opinion no attenuator should ever be rated like this, because *the whole point is that they will be used to overdrive the amp*, and musicians should not be expected to know that the two things are different - an ‘x watt’ attenuator should be safe with an ‘x watt’ amp, period.

That said, there’s still that safety factor of two with the Princeton and the MiniMass even if the actual power input rating was 25W, so nothing to worry about. I would be wary with a 25W amp, and a 50-watter would almost certainly kill it.

You aren’t wrong to worry about it, because if you blow the attenuator there’s a good chance the amp’s output transformer will shortly follow.

Fiddlesticks_

ICBM said:

You aren’t wrong to worry about it, because if you blow the attenuator there’s a good chance the amp’s output transformer will shortly follow.

And this is exactly what was worrying me, I’m really fond of this amp and I’d be gutted (not to mention financially fucked) if it got fried.

Thanks for the info. So it sounds like I’ll still be ok, which has alleviated some anxiety.

Fiddlesticks_

Finally got round to trying it today. I’m at odds with it because on one hand it allows me to get that slightly broken up sound I want at lower volume; but on the other hand my fuzz (JHS 3 Series) sounds completely different through it. It’s a lot smoother (which is good and what I expected) but it also sounds really muffled (which is bad and not what I expected).

Does anyone know why my fuzz would sound more muffled when an attenuator is in use? Or is it more of a byproduct of the amp being turned up more?

Dodge

Fiddlesticks_ said:

Does anyone know why my fuzz would sound more muffled when an attenuator is in use? Or is it more of a byproduct of the amp being turned up more?

It could be - you could prove it by turning the amp back down to pre-attenuator levels.  Amp attenuation isn't perfect.  Some speakers cope with lower volumes better than others too.  I've got a Hiwatt Custom 20 - even a little attenuation makes it sound middly and congested with little detail.  Take the attenuator out and it sounds magnificient.

For me, attenuators are for knocking a bit of volume off a loud amp.  They don't turn a loud amp into a quiet one with identical tone.  If you're talking home volumes you might never achieve what you want.  My home volume solution is my amp into a reactive load box and the line out into impulse responses.  It's a 'recorded' tone rather than being in the room, but it sounds better than an attenuated amp at low volume IMHO.

Moe_Zambeek

If you take the attenuator out and run the amp at the real volume it breaks up at and use the fuzz, does it sound muffled?

I’m not really surprised it sounds more muffled though, some fuzzes like having their hard edges smoothed out with a clipping amp but some definitely do not and the whole thing turns to mush.

But in general attenuators do odd things to amps and as mentioned above some sound better with specific amps. 

StuartMac290

Moe_Zambeek said:

If you take the attenuator out and run the amp at the real volume it breaks up at and use the fuzz, does it sound muffled?

I’m not really surprised it sounds more muffled though, some fuzzes like having their hard edges smoothed out with a clipping amp but some definitely do not and the whole thing turns to mush.

But in general attenuators do odd things to amps and as mentioned above some sound better with specific amps. 

Out of interest did you ever find anything that worked well with your Matchless?