Entry level band PA system ?

Jimbo55

Not sure if this is the right section for this ?
Looking for an entry level PA system for an amateur bunch of us to use in a practice hall, and maybe small venue of up to 100 people. 5/6 piece: 1 or 2 vocals, 2 guitars, 1 bass, 1 drummer (real or electronic set). Including foldback speaker.
Not very technical on this side of things, just a basic complete kit, probably second-hand and reasonable/budget price.
We have guitar and bass amps.
Don't know what wattage would do.
Mustn't be too monstrous to cart around and simple to set up.
Any pointers as to where to start ? Can update gear later (if we progress, haha).
Much appreciated.

RickLucas

An old Peavey mixer amp and a pair of 12s would be where I'd start. 300 watts or so. Something like this: Peavey XR 600C Mixer Amp UK spec | eBay

Supportact

For 'entry level/simple to set up' it's worth looking at the Yamaha Stagepas range. My friend had one for acoustic gigs and he was very happy with it. They've made various size/wattage though. His one had two main speakers, a mixer, and all the leads included. Obviously you'd still need mics, and probably at least one powered monitor. 

Jimbo55

RickLucas said:

An old Peavey mixer amp and a pair of 12s would be where I'd start. 300 watts or so. Something like this: Peavey XR 600C Mixer Amp UK spec | eBay

Thanks RickLucas ! Certainly an approach to begin with and got me thinking - plenty of channels, shame they won't post as it's collect only. Guess a cobbled together system, with used bits should be more budget conscious.

Jimbo55

Supportact said:

For 'entry level/simple to set up' it's worth looking at the Yamaha Stagepas range. My friend had one for acoustic gigs and he was very happy with it. They've made various size/wattage though. His one had two main speakers, a mixer, and all the leads included. Obviously you'd still need mics, and probably at least one powered monitor. 

Thanks Supportact ! These compact (very portable) all in one systems are interesting and seem to come up for sale often. I guess the 600 ones pack a bit more punch for an electric band, but these seem to only have a few input channels. I don't know if you can double up on each channel, or maybe put guitars alone through their own amps. My ignorance is probably overcomplicating a simpler solution or entry point !

RickLucas

As column arrays and active speakers have become available, the older stuff has become a bargain at all levels, whether Peavey or Electrovoice. Yes it's heavier, but it works.

Jimbo55

Just wondering if something like this, some old Laney gear may be a complete package for us - it's not too far away and I already have a possibly compatible small Laney foldback/stage monitor? Confused bu these column thingies !
LANEY 10-CHANNEL PA / DSP MIXER CD1042S + LANEY CX12 SPEAKERS, LEADS & STANDS
ebay item number: 285747328268
doesn't look like it would take up too much storage space.
(tried to paste direct link, but it's me again, never easy haha)

Supportact

Jimbo55 said:

Supportact said:

For 'entry level/simple to set up' it's worth looking at the Yamaha Stagepas range. My friend had one for acoustic gigs and he was very happy with it. They've made various size/wattage though. His one had two main speakers, a mixer, and all the leads included. Obviously you'd still need mics, and probably at least one powered monitor. 

Thanks Supportact ! These compact (very portable) all in one systems are interesting and seem to come up for sale often. I guess the 600 ones pack a bit more punch for an electric band, but these seem to only have a few input channels. I don't know if you can double up on each channel, or maybe put guitars alone through their own amps. My ignorance is probably overcomplicating a simpler solution or entry point !

I think if you're only playing a small venue or practice room, (and depending what type of music you're playing), you may only want to put the vocals through the PA. Totally right to try to work out how many inputs you need though.  

For example,  my band playing a small venue would put 2 x vocal mics, plus an acoustic guitar ( pickup), plus sax (wireless pickup) through the PA. Bass and electric guitar are loud enough through their own amps. Drums are generally unmiced, although sometimes we'll mic the kick depending on how it sounds in the room (but thats more for the sound than for loudness). So we're only really using 3 x xlr and 1 x jack inputs on the mixer. 

That's generally fine for a small hall or pub. Any places we play that are bigger than that tend to have their own pa and sound engineer anyway.  

We're playing laid back acoustic Americana type stuff though,  a metal band would have different requirements.  

LooseMoose

If it’s of any interest, I have a Mackie powered mixer with loads of power and plenty of channels that I would let go pretty cheaply if you are local to me in Worcestershire?

Kebabkid

Pm'd

Jimbo55

LooseMoose said:

If it’s of any interest, I have a Mackie powered mixer with loads of power and plenty of channels that I would let go pretty cheaply if you are local to me in Worcestershire?

Quite a distance from Worcs unfortunately but thank you - what sort of spec is it for info, have seen Mackie name but I little I know on these. Thanks

Kebabkid

Pm'd with more info and pics

LooseMoose

Jimbo55 said:

LooseMoose said:

If it’s of any interest, I have a Mackie powered mixer with loads of power and plenty of channels that I would let go pretty cheaply if you are local to me in Worcestershire?

Quite a distance from Worcs unfortunately but thank you - what sort of spec is it for info, have seen Mackie name but I little I know on these. Thanks

No worries, it’s a Mackie 808M so all in one mixer amp, tonnes of channels and HUGE power - quite a weighty thing so not class D (which is a good thing!)

hollywoodrox

Isn’t there a cheapish brand called QTX or QRX  that would have something suitable for this job 
  Or are they not very good 

chickenbonejohn

I'd second what Supportact says - for small venues like you describe, it's likely that you'd only need the PA for vocals, plus a mic. on the kick drum, so the number of channels isn't too much  of an issue. For a decent kick sound a 12 inch speaker is handy, but unfortunately they can be a bit heavy - I use a Mackie Pro FX 12 mixer (which paid for itself on the first gig) and a pair of Mackie 450s (bought 2ndhand) and always curse their weight!

bouzordion

Hijacking this old thread - apologies!

 I'm in a 3 piece band, playing mainly grunge/rock type stuff, who are looking to start gigging locally - mostly small pubs (up to 100 people).

I'm gonna be using a tonemaster pro which I was hoping to put straight into the PA (although I have an FR), and as well as vocals we were considering using an electric kit (but with acoustic cymbals) - so the PA would need to be able to handle that too.  We're in London, so given that space is at a premium we were looking at line array compact stuff like this: 

https://www.thomann.co.uk/db_technologies_es503.htm?gad_source=1&gad_campaignid=1581403912&gbraid=0AAAAADuDMCUq_lO9tNq5YM1KgXmvUAfmJ&gclid=Cj0KCQiA-YvMBhDtARIsAHZuUzKWJYElPLuohhBbNvHJRqTcPWIEAiHzyEwpH4XgxHYXv31Co99MGa4aAj0IEALw_wcB

A friend of mine who's done some sound has advised us against it, and said its best to just get 2 x 12inch powered PA speakers and a little mixer, but based on 'if it aint broke' thinking more than any direct experience with line array systems.

Any thoughts/pointers would be much appreciated - stating the obvious but I'm clueless when it comes to this stuff!

ElectricXII

@Bouzordion our drummer plays Roland V-Drums which goes into the PA with vocals. For smaller pub gigs we need to use at least one full sized powered sub along with two tops to handle it, and two subs for bigger gigs. Our previous drummer used acoustic drums and we were able to get away with a column array PA as we were only mic'ing the kick drum, but the column array struggled with the V-Drums.

Snags

If you're putting the drums through I'd be tempted to get 15" tops rather than 12", unless you're also getting a sub.

I'm a cheapskate, so I'd probably be looking for some pre-loved active tops and a mixer with enough channels and also enough aux sends to give you whatever foldback/monitoring you want.

FWIW we're currently a 5 piece and due to desk limitations run 3x vocals, 1x acoustic, 1x keys and 1x kick through the PA, with electric guitars coming from the amps, and we're using a pair of old Mackie 15" tops. I'm looking at replacing the desk so we can run the two electrics and bass through as well, when we want to, although actually it's not a problem for us having amps on stage and the bassists 4x10 cab sounds fantastic, so wouldn't want to lose that.

@legionreturns (if he's still on here) did a lot of work on line array stuff, going through various sets, before settling on (IIRC) an EV system that's £many, and again IIRC his conclusion was that none of the cheaper ones were worth shit unless you were just an acoustic duo kind of thing.