Scale approaches over diatonic chords when improvising

Axe_meister

Just a quick question on how you approach improvising over diatonic chords.
I have the 7 3 note per string shapes under my fingers and if I know the key i can blat around
the fretboard fairly fluently.
One approach is to obviously thin;. This is a song in E major, these are all of the, I just join the 7 shapes up and zip around the fretboard regardless of the underlying chord. However there is a either a bit of luck required to make it sound musical, or you really need to know, where the chord tones are for every chord you are soloing over

Another approach could be a little more modal. Over say the E major chord, I can then zoom around the fretboard as usual. I know that where I have only a semitone difference I'm playin the 3rd to 4th interval or the M7 to 1st interval. Then when the chord changes to say a B, I could then think, B mixolydian shape(s). Again knowing the where the 3rd to 4th and 6th to Dom7 are. And it's really the where the semitones are that defines the modal sound, it also makes it a bit easier to play outside of the Underlying scale, i.e. Use modes of the harmonic minor, melodic minor for melodic major, especially if a chord is borrowed from a parallel key.
Obviously the underlying scale shapes are the all same.

To me at least the second approach comes easier as I don't have to think quite so much, i.e. I just need to think ahead as to where the nearest B is. Whereas in the first approach because it's so easy to just "Randomly" zoom around it's easier to forget where you are or what notes/intervals you are even playing.

Roland

I hate scalar solos. My advice is to use melodies and rhythmic ideas. Rather than play the “safe” notes which are common across the chords I prefer to target the notes which are different.

ElevensLouder

Depends what kind of playing you are inspired by and what kinds of solos make you happy. Someone who loves the blues is going to have a totally different conceptual outlook to this than somebody who loves Slayer.

For me, what got me away from scalar playing was to think more in terms of chord tones and further down the line; triad pairs.

However, if you're happy blazing 3nps runs over diatonic chord progressions, then blaze away and enjoy yourself - life is too short to be told what is 'hip' or what you 'should' be playing.

These aspects of playing are much better suited to face-to-face tuition (or online lessons) where you can actually engage with a mentor in real time.

joeW

Resolution points that signal chord changes are an easy way to sound ‘musical’ and highlight the changes.  These are often chord tones but can sound great if there’s a strong note in the melody of the tune.  Then blaze away until you get to the resolution.  

octatonic

It is great that you know the shapes and the mechanics of getting around the fretboard.

Now it is time to do two things.

1. Transcribe loads of solos.
It really, really matters.
Analyse what other players are doing.
You don't have to transcribe entire solos.
Just grab the lines you like.

2. There is an exercise that has been the most transformative thing for my soloing through progressions.

Say you have a ii V I in C major:

Dm7 / / / |  G7 / / / | Cmaj7 / / / | / / / / ||

Play through the chord progression using scales so that you hit chord tones on the downbeat.

You don't have to do this fast, in fact the slower the better to begin with.
Use different note divisions when doing this.
Also focus on playing it musically, rather than just whizzing about the neck.

Outline chords too, esp extended chords.
Like Dm9 G13 Cmaj9 above.

Now try this with a bunch of other chord progressions.

Evo

Knowing scale shapes is only the first step. It's a very important step, and one that many fall at, but still much more to learn afterwards.

Kudos for wanting to take a step further as well, many would be absolutely delighted in whizzing up and down their 3nps patterns for the rest of their playing days.


I'd recommend really getting to grips with the scales you know, before trying to delve into modal or "changes" playing though.

Now that you have the shapes in your fingers, you need to pay close attention to exactly what it is you're playing over. There's no need to switch up scales or indulge in any fancy trickery, but you should aim to play patterns and melodies which move with the chord progression you're playing over. If the chords are moving from an E major to a G#m, then your playing needs to shift with it to highlight and complement the change. How you do that is up to you.

If you have any kind of home recording setup, then try this little exercise:

Record yourself improvising over a simple chord progression, then mute the chords.

Can you tell what the chords are JUST by listening to your solo? if not, then think about how you can better imply the chords within your playing and have another go.  

Axe2Grind

The one simple thing I do over a piece of music that does not change key is to use the parent major scale of said key. If you know all of its 7 shapes to enable you to play the major scale across the whole fretboard then you can't really go wrong as far as note choices. Obviously there is phrasing, timing, intonation, being musical and expressive when improvising which as you know one needs to try to incorporate all these things when playing. This just my approach for what its worth, its just the same approach I follow when playing keyboards as I'm primarily a keyboard player. 

Danny1969

For me I'm always thinking of the chord I'm playing over. I'm never thinking of a shape or a fretboard pattern. I used to do that when I started out but it's not the most musical approach IMHO.  I think about the chord I'm playing over and generally I target the 3rd or the 5th note of that chord in the phrases I play. You literally can't go wrong with this approach and it always sounds musical.  

viz

I just think tunes