Bm11 in Key of E

lincolnblue

If a song is in E, the 5th chord is the B. If I want to use, on occasion, a Bm11, would this be referred to as the minor 5 or does it have another name?

joeW

Are you playing the minor 3rd or subbing it for the 11?

lincolnblue

I'm playing the chord this way:

E - 7th fret
A - muted
D - 7th fret
G - 7th fret
B - 5th fret
E - open

Tannin

It's a B minor 11. The notes are
1
x
7
minor 3
4
4

Given that there is a minor 3rd, it's a minor chord
Given that there is a 7th, the 4th is termed an 11

So Bm11

Yes, I think I would term it as the minor 5 (or just the 5 if the key is E minor, you didn't specify).

lincolnblue

Tannin said:

It's a B minor 11. The notes are
1
x
7
minor 3
4
4

Given that there is a minor 3rd, it's a minor chord
Given that there is a 7th, the 4th is termed an 11

So Bm11

Yes, I think I would term it as the minor 5 (or just the 5 if the key is E minor, you didn't specify).

Sorry I thought I mentioned - the key is E but I want to use the Bm11 at times

joeW

as @Tannin points out - if the key was Em then the 5 would be Bm anyway.  Or if its E major then it's just a borrowed chord from the relative minor.   I don't think it would be a Dom chord as having a sharp 9 and an 11 would be pretty out there... but I could be wrong (often am).

lincolnblue

My theory is very basic so I'm never sure on these things. I'm planning arrangements for a carol service at church and for one carol I want to use the Bm11 at a few points. Key is E so for the turnaround/intro will be playing Bm11, A, E (same chords infact as Wicked Game by Chris Issac)

digitalkettle

If it's very similar to 'Wicked Game', you could describe it as B Dorian (key of A).

guitarjack66

Wicked Game chords at a Church service? Sounds like the Devil has infiltrated the congregation.

HAL9000

guitarjack66 said:

Wicked Game chords at a Church service? Sounds like the Devil has infiltrated the congregation.

Dyslexic Santa joke coming up?

Adji

Fun progression.

It I relatively common to borrow chords from the 'parallel' key.

E Major and E minor are referred to as parallel keys. It is quite simple to modulate and move between them, taking chords from either side of the tracks. Also, it is particularly easy to do over the I chord (E) or V chord (B). So what you are describing is relatively commonplace and perfectly theoretically 'acceptable'.

Stuckfast

lincolnblue said:

My theory is very basic so I'm never sure on these things. I'm planning arrangements for a carol service at church and for one carol I want to use the Bm11 at a few points. Key is E so for the turnaround/intro will be playing Bm11, A, E (same chords infact as Wicked Game by Chris Issac)

Is it really functioning as a B chord in that sequence? To me it sounds more like a double suspension (if that's a thing) on the A chord that is then resolved to the A. 

Stuckfast

... in fact, could it even be considered as functionally a D major in that context, so we're effectively hearing VII-IV-I?

octatonic

There are a number of ways of looking at Bm11 in a key of E major.

1. As a ii7 chord in E major's relative minor key (C# minor)

In the context of E major, the relative minor is C# minor. In this case:

The Bm11 chord is the vii7 chord in the key of C# minor.

It often resolves to an F#m7 or F#m11 chord (v7 in C# minor), which is also a diatonic chord in E major.

2. As a borrowed chord (modal mixture)

Bm11 does not naturally belong to the diatonic harmony of E major (where the ii chord would be F#m7), but it can be used as a borrowed chord from E minor. In E minor, Bm11 is the v11 chord. Borrowing it into E major can create a colourful or modal flavour, leading to unexpected resolutions.

3. As a substitution for IVmaj7 (Amaj7)

The Bm11 can sometimes act as an extended IVmaj7 substitution due to the shared notes:

Amaj7 (IV): A - C# - E - G#

Bm11: B - D - F# - A - E

If you omit the D from the Bm11 chord, you get a similar sonority to an Amaj7(add9). This allows the Bm11 to function as a smoother, more colourful IV chord in E major.

4. As a ii chord in a secondary dominant progression

The Bm11 can also function as the ii7 in a temporary modulation or 'tonicization' of A major (the IV chord in E major). For instance:

Progression: Bm11 → E7 → Amaj7 Here, Bm11 acts as the ii7 in the key of A major, which resolves to A, the IV chord of E major.

5. As a passing chord

Bm11 can function as a passing or embellishing chord between diatonic chords in E major. For example:

Progression: E → A → Bm11 → F#m7 The Bm11 adds colour and a smooth stepwise motion between the A and F#m7 chords.

6. Non-functional chord (ambient/jazz context)

In modern jazz or ambient contexts, the Bm11 might not serve a "functional" purpose. Instead, it could be used for its rich, open texture to create atmosphere within an E major tonal framework.

It is slightly pointless to consider it in a deconstructed way though.
Its interpretation largely depends on what comes before and after it.

Evo

octatonic said:

The Bm11 chord is the ii7 chord in the key of C# minor.

I might be missing a step but I'm calling a very rare @octatonic theory error here.

The B would be the vii chord in C#m if I'm counting correctly on my fingers (I may be wrong though, I'm not prepared to take my socks off to confirm). 

octatonic

Evo said:

octatonic said:

The Bm11 chord is the ii7 chord in the key of C# minor.

I might be missing a step but I'm calling a very rare @octatonic theory error here.

The B would be the vii chord in C#m if I'm counting correctly on my fingers (I may be wrong though, I'm not prepared to take my socks off to confirm). 

Yes, that was a brain fart.
Edited.