A lot of Line 6 Helix for sale - seems unusual?

Voxman

Just idly looking at Ebay and whereas you didn't normally see a lot of Helix LT/floor for sale I was very surprised to see 16 used on EBay just now - 14 LT's & 2 Floor (all UK)!

I was just wondering whether this could be indicative that with so many new smaller, cheaper MFX now being offered with ever more high specs inc dual routing, touch screen, AI intelligent EQ etc (eg Boss GX100, Headrush MX5, Mooer GE1000) these bigger & heavier Helix MFX might now be falling out of favour. 

I'm mindful also that Helix, whilst it's been improved considerably since launch in 2015, is nevertheless now some 10 years old.  Line 6 must surely already be working on bringing out a next generation MFX product line within (& I'm guessing here) the next 18-24 mths if its to maintain its market position.

Any thoughts?

Majorscale

It’s the ten year anniversary thing combined with NAMM fast approaching. If L6 release a new version then helix v1 values may tank…

stickyfiddle

Equally it’s January and folks have bills to pay..?

Voxman

Majorscale said:

It’s the ten year anniversary thing combined with NAMM fast approaching. If L6 release a new version then helix v1 values may tank…

L6 have already said nothing new at NAMM re Helix/, mfx wise. 

stickyfiddle said:

Equally it’s January and folks have bills to pay..?

Possible I suppose maybe for one or two, but I think the sellers have just fallen out of love with them or just don't need them anymore. 

Danny1969

I think it's par for the course for MFX .. I've had loads of Boss, Zoom and the a couple of Line 6 MFX over the years  and never kept any of them except the Vox Tonelab SE 

fretmeister

Kemper is older by quite a few years and still going strong.
There's 45,000 members of the largest Helix English language group on facebook so I don't think 16 units is anything to even think about.

Eric Klein (our very own @Digital_Igloo ) - the Helix boss at L6 has said that it has years left in it, although back in 2018 on a TGP thread he pointed out that it partly depends on what the competition do and how much "Copy n paste" of the Helix there is by other makers. He said that they had discovered L6 code in competitor's products!

However, my own view is... it sounds great. The day after a new one comes out it will still sound great. It won't be obsolete despite what some naysayers claim because it will still work exactly the way it does now.

At some point they will stop doing updates for it completely, but even if that is today I still have a unit that does everything I want it to do.

No doubt the used values will crash when a new one comes along, but IMHO that's because of FOMO stupidity rather than actual value. When that happens I suspect I'll buy a spare unit at a knockdown price.

Voxman

Danny1969 said:

I think it's par for the course for MFX .. I've had loads of Boss, Zoom and the a couple of Line 6 MFX over the years  and never kept any of them except the Vox Tonelab SE 

Yup, the SE and LE were ahead of their time with the tube, valvereactor circuit, real knobs and selectors and heavy duty psu. I've so far not found anything better for gigging, but I'm still looking. 

chrisj1602

Helix and LT might be larger units but the benefit of this is the layout and number of switches. While the hardware has remained unchanged, the periodic updates and UI still make it very appealing.

stickyfiddle

fretmeister said:

Kemper is older by quite a few years and still going strong.
There's 45,000 members of the largest Helix English language group on facebook so I don't think 16 units is anything to even think about.

Eric Klein (our very own @Digital_Igloo ) - the Helix boss at L6 has said that it has years left in it, although back in 2018 on a TGP thread he pointed out that it partly depends on what the competition do and how much "Copy n paste" of the Helix there is by other makers. He said that they had discovered L6 code in competitor's products!

However, my own view is... it sounds great. The day after a new one comes out it will still sound great. It won't be obsolete despite what some naysayers claim because it will still work exactly the way it does now.

At some point they will stop doing updates for it completely, but even if that is today I still have a unit that does everything I want it to do.

No doubt the used values will crash when a new one comes along, but IMHO that's because of FOMO stupidity rather than actual value. When that happens I suspect I'll buy a spare unit at a knockdown price.

This is it 100%

It's the same for cameras, except with MFX they're not inventing new sounds and there's no equivalent of "better stabilisation" or a more sensitive and/or accurate sensor, so it's even more true. The current batch of modelling stuff sounds incredible compared to the likes of Pod 2.0/XT. That same leap isn't going to happen again.

Roland

fretmeister said: 

... it sounds great. The day after a new one comes out it will still sound great. It won't be obsolete despite what some naysayers claim because it will still work exactly the way it does now.

…. No doubt the used values will crash when a new one comes along, but IMHO that's because of FOMO stupidity rather than actual value. When that happens I suspect I'll buy a spare unit at a knockdown price.

This is exactly what happened with the BOSS GT-6. 

Voxman

@fretmeister ;Oh sure, the Helix is still a great unit but its just that I've never seen so many come up all at once. And absolutely new models don't mean older gear still doesn't sound great, hence why I'm still using the original Blue series Valvetronix amps and Tonelabs! 

But I do think folk are downsizing probably because there are now more MFX options out there and the Helix is far more than they need.  And whilst it's UI is pretty good, it's a very sophisticated bit of kit.  There's so much in it that it does have a pretty steep learning curve & even though Pod Go is simpler, it too is far from 'plug n play'.    

willo

People buy modellers in a cycle more like tech than guitar gear. So it's about upgrading to the latest model etc rather than considering the tone, timbre etc (I am guilty of this too).

For years people have been speculating about a new Helix. One year they will be right but it's been wrong for the last 5. 

The other thing is a number of retailers had excellent prices available for new LTs and Floors. Perhaps some people dabbled, or bought them speculatively and are trying to sell for a small profit. 

fretmeister

Voxman said:

@fretmeister ;Oh sure, the Helix is still a great unit but its just that I've never seen so many come up all at once. And absolutely new models don't mean older gear still doesn't sound great, hence why I'm still using the original Blue series Valvetronix amps and Tonelabs! 

But I do think folk are downsizing probably because there are now more MFX options out there and the Helix is far more than they need.  And whilst it's UI is pretty good, it's a very sophisticated bit of kit.  There's so much in it that it does have a pretty steep learning curve & even though Pod Go is simpler, it too is far from 'plug n play'.    

I suppose because I've had a L6 product since the first POD that I think it's dead easy and that the Helix made it easier than all that came before it.

I can see how it could be a bit of a head fuck if it was the very first unit someone got, even if the UI was streets ahead of Fractal and Kemper at the time.

I'm not sure any modeller can be Plug n Play unless using the always awful stock presets. 

Third party youtubers have been excellent at explaining how modern modellers work, but I can't help thinking that the makers should really have 4 or 5 very basic vids with an obvious link to watching them as soon as a purchase is made.

On something with a bigger-than-a-phone screen like most of the current modellers it could even be shown on that on the first start up. Make it easy!

Heartfeltdawn

Voxman said:

@fretmeister Oh sure, the Helix is still a great unit but its just that I've never seen so many come up all at once. And absolutely new models don't mean older gear still doesn't sound great, hence why I'm still using the original Blue series Valvetronix amps and Tonelabs! 

But I do think folk are downsizing probably because there are now more MFX options out there and the Helix is far more than they need.  And whilst it's UI is pretty good, it's a very sophisticated bit of kit.  There's so much in it that it does have a pretty steep learning curve & even though Pod Go is simpler, it too is far from 'plug n play'.    

Go and check the sold listings. 24 Helix LT's sold on Ebay in November so I don't think the number up for sale is unusual. Of the LT's up for sale now, 8 of them were listed in 2024. Some are new from stores but there are some from people asking too much money. The price of LTs has dropped a lot from the highs last year. 

I wouldn't say people are downsizing so much as going modular. The Fractal VP4 is a clear indicator of that. Just wait until the Fractal VA2... 

As for the UI... Helix does not have a steep learning curve. It's easy. 

Voxman said:

I was just wondering whether this could be indicative that with so many new smaller, cheaper MFX now being offered with ever more high specs inc dual routing, touch screen, AI intelligent EQ etc (eg Boss GX100, Headrush MX5, Mooer GE1000) these bigger & heavier Helix MFX might now be falling out of favour. 

The larger ones are falling out of favour but the smaller ones are rising in price. They're going from LT to 'pedals + HX Stomp' or 'pedals @ HX Effects + amp modeller of their choice'. HX Effects and HX Stomp prices have actually gone up over the last six months whilst LT prices have dropped. £500 for a used LT is not uncommon and represents a bloody great price for someone starting up or more experienced. 

You mention the higher spec, touchscreens, etc. You don't mention the sounds. Most threads I've seen on the Boss GX-100 for instance end up talking of its limitations far more than its positive elements. I'd also shy away from all of those units as none of those manufacturers can boast the commitment to updates and improvements that Line 6 have done with Helix. Seeing where Helix has come when I bought my first LT in the giddy rush of lockdown 1 to where it is now, Line 6 deserves a shitload of credit for that.

Voxman

@Heartfeltdawn said: "As for the UI... Helix does not have a steep learning curve. It's easy".

 Clearly there's a lot of love for the Helix here and I completely understand and agree that it's a great piece of kit. And there are a lot of experienced users on here. But I absolutely and 100% disagree that it's 'easy'. Sure, it's easy to 'select' an amp, cab & effects. But easy to get a great sound out of? Maybe if you're sonically skilled and/or studio experienced. But figuring out which mic to use, and at what distance, angle etc, which cab, what parameters for each amp etc is hugely challenging and newbies to this tech will often suffer 'option paralysis' at least initially until they find their feet. The options available are simply staggering and hugely daunting for new owners and even moderately experienced users find it challenging. And even figuring out the best connectivity with your gear can be a learning curve. The UI is definitely very good especially as compared to Boss gear (if you're not used to it) but there's still a lot to learn re snapshots, assignments, Command Centre, dual routing etc.

 Having had my Pod Go since Covid I had a Helix LT on approval early last year (before the latest upgrades) and really spent some time with it. Even with the experience of using Pod Go and familiarity with the Line 6 UI, there was still a lot to take on board. There were many things I liked about the LT. Needless to say more processing power, no fixed blocks, & more functionality eg Command Centre, but I also liked the built in transformer that allow a standard guitar amp IEC power lead to be used (the PSU shipped with Pod Go is beyond dreadful). But ultimately Pod Go largely met my needs for home use and I couldn't really justify the purchase so I returned it. Which is how I know it's a great MFX unit with phenomenal scope - but it's how I also know it ain't 'easy'. One thing I much preferred though in Pod Go is its display - I'm not a fan of the more austere 'lined' icons in Helix although I appreciate some other mfx like the quad cortex have a similar display look. It's not a deal breaker, just an observation and a personal preference.

"You mention the higher spec, touchscreens, etc. You don't mention the sounds. Most threads I've seen on the Boss GX-100 for instance end up talking of its limitations far more than its positive elements. I'd also shy away from all of those units as none of those manufacturers can boast the commitment to updates and improvements that Line 6 have done with Helix. Seeing where Helix has come when I bought my first LT in the giddy rush of lockdown 1 to where it is now, Line 6 deserves a shitload of credit for that."

Fully agree re Line 6 customer support & commitment to upgrades - which is why I went Pod Go rather than other mfx like the Mooer GE300.

Soundwise, the GX100 sounded really good and it's a stonking price for a dual routing modeller. I think the AIRD approach works really well, and makes it much easier to get great tones out the box. 

And I did give Line 6 credit for the huge upgrades they've made to Helix since 2015, - it's a very different unit today not just from a features and number of models perspective, but its tonal improvements too. 

Sporky

I've gone through a good few multiFX units, and the Helix for me is probably the easiest to tweak sounds.

There are lots of options, but the user interface is superb. Very visual and easy to navigate.

I think that's separate from there being lots of options and requiring a bit of thought to get out of it - interface vs experience maybe.

Voxman

Sporky said:

I've gone through a good few multiFX units, and the Helix for me is probably the easiest to tweak sounds.

There are lots of options, but the user interface is superb. Very visual and easy to navigate.

I think that's separate from there being lots of options and requiring a bit of thought to get out of it - interface vs experience maybe.

Yes.  @Sporky & @Heartfeltdawn ;;, if you guys mean physically easy to use & navigate purely from a UI interface perspective, I fully agree, the UI is really good & it was a big reason I bought Pod Go. I was coming at this more from using it to craft good tones ie what to select and set, which is a pretty fair learning curve for most users.  Sorry for any unintended misunderstanding here.

Heartfeltdawn

Voxman said:

@Heartfeltdawn said: "As for the UI... Helix does not have a steep learning curve. It's easy".

 Clearly there's a lot of love for the Helix here and I completely understand and agree that it's a great piece of kit. And there are a lot of experienced users on here. But I absolutely and 100% disagree that it's 'easy'. Sure, it's easy to 'select' an amp, cab & effects. But easy to get a great sound out of? Maybe if you're sonically skilled and/or studio experienced. But figuring out which mic to use, and at what distance, angle etc, which cab, what parameters for each amp etc is hugely challenging and newbies to this tech will often suffer 'option paralysis' at least initially until they find their feet. The options available are simply staggering and hugely daunting for new owners and even moderately experienced users find it challenging. And even figuring out the best connectivity with your gear can be a learning curve. The UI is definitely very good especially as compared to Boss gear (if you're not used to it) but there's still a lot to learn re snapshots, assignments, Command Centre, dual routing etc.

It is easy if you want it to be easy. So here's how I make it easy: I don't obsess over which mic to use, which angle it should be at, what cabs to use etc. In essence, I can make it as easy to use as the Boss GT-3 (the first MFX unit which I really loved). I ignore some of the options to tweak until there comes a point when tweaking is necessary. At that point, I don't start by flicking through every mic possible with every cabinet and then delve into my IR library. This year my attitude is "Stop fucking about and go and play". A few dirt pedals, a compressor, an HX Effects running dual IR cabs... done. 

It's funny to me how option paralysis gets brought up in convos like this. "MFX units, they have so many variables! Why can't they be simple?". Well, they are if you make them simple. Imagine your guitar with a cable hooked up to an amp. You could go option paralysis there with the following:

-pickups, string gauge, fret type and size, what wood for the fingerboard, what wood for the body. thickness of pick and material, brand of cable and how that affects the tone, what sort of capacitors to use on the tone pots, what pots for volume, what valves for the amp, speaker changes... ahhhhhhhhhhhh! Rabbit holes! Most people don't go down there because there is more of a 'shut up and play' attitude because it takes more time and effort to change those things. You can't change your pau ferro fingerboard for ebony with the click of a button. MFX units, you can make those changes quickly and easily. People feel more inclined to tweak because it's easier so it therefore becomes easier to fall into the rabbit hole. 

topdog91

This seems like a good time to bring up my Axe Fx II which sat on a shelf for 2-3 years with the settings barely changing, if at all. I "only" used it for practice and recording and it sounded great so I just shut up and played my guitar. Yes, lots of people fall down the tweaking trap, but it's not the devices' fault.

gretschthumper

If there are more s/h Helix variants for sale now (I've no idea if this is true), I think it will be because of the Tonex One: you can buy that for £130 and use existing pedals or a multifx unit to do what you need at a fraction of the cost of a Helix floor. I'll keep my Helix floor because I like it, but I bought a Tonex one at the end of last year, and it really did change my view of these things - so much so that I now use it for amps in the loop of the Helix, saving dsp & leaving that to be the multifx unit in my setup.

To me the Tonex One is really (horrible phrase) "a game changer"

Things move on, and I'll be interested to see Line 6's response to all this.

Musicwolf

Helix has been going for 10 years now, and they're pretty reliable, so that's a lot of units out there.  Logically the number up for sale must increase year by year.

The other thing is that, without proper data (i.e. total number offered for sale on a particular platform / finite region per year) it's just a 'feeling' and, once you have it in your head that there's more up for sale, you are going to notice adverts more.