A lot of Line 6 Helix for sale - seems unusual?

stickyfiddle

Honestly, anyone complaining the Helix stuff is hard to use should try an H90… 

UnclePsychosis

I'm actually pretty tempted to buy an LT right now after spending more time with Helix Native.

Stomp prices are getting silly - they now cost more second hand than I bought one new for a few years ago and the LT seems like much better value.

That said I do have some annoyances with Native, I'll probably start a different thread about them...

Chuffola

I agree with @stickyfiddle and @Heartfeltdawn ;

The Helix ecosystem is simple compared to many and you definitely don't need to faff about with mic angles and distance to get it to sound good. Since a recent update (can't remember which) some of the cabs are good enough that I'm not sure IRs are required anymore. 

In fact, using the Amp / Cab combination rather than separate results in excellent sounds for many (most?) of the options.

Use the Helix Edit software and its a doddle. Even on the unit, it's pretty intuitive. 

Into studio monitors its been the best home solution I've ever had - and like most of us, I've had a LOT.

relic245

Chuffola said:

Since a recent update (can't remember which) some of the cabs are good enough that I'm not sure IRs are required anymore. 

Oh that comment has worried me.

based on seeing that you can get a used LT for about £500 I was now thinking seriously about one.

i have an hx fx at the moment and thinking that upgrading to an lt  would be a good option. I could use it direct at rehearsal and have a backup solution live if my amp blew a valve.

really don’t want to go down any rabbit holes and would want it to just work and be good enough.

I didn’t know that needing irs was a thing.

UnclePsychosis

I don't believe separate IRs were ever "needed". Just another rabbit hole to fall down.

Voxman

relic245 said:

Chuffola said:

Since a recent update (can't remember which) some of the cabs are good enough that I'm not sure IRs are required anymore. 

Oh that comment has worried me.

based on seeing that you can get a used LT for about £500 I was now thinking seriously about one.

i have an hx fx at the moment and thinking that upgrading to an lt  would be a good option. I could use it direct at rehearsal and have a backup solution live if my amp blew a valve.

really don’t want to go down any rabbit holes and would want it to just work and be good enough.

I didn’t know that needing irs was a thing.

In Pod Go, v2.0 was a huge upgrade that brought in the new cab engine from Helix (I think it was Helix v3.5) and where the new cabs were more detailed impulse responses. These new cabs are generally accepted by most users to be better sounding although not every 'legacy' cab had a new version. The legacy cabs are still there too, so the new models are in addition to rather than instead of these. This meant that users could choose to keep their patches unaltered, or to use a new cab (where available).

Prior to this upgrade, for both Helix and Pod Go, many users were importing third party IRs for better tonal quality. Since the upgrade, it's generally thought that the new cab model quality is now so good, there's less of a need, or even no need, for third party IRs. Of course, some users will still want to use their favourite third party IRs.  As we all know, tone is a very personal thing and very subjective eg many users were quite happy with the stock 'legacy' cabs and never had a need to use IRs.

The new cab engine also gave much more control re mic positioning. 

Heartfeltdawn

relic245 said:

Oh that comment has worried me.

based on seeing that you can get a used LT for about £500 I was now thinking seriously about one.

i have an hx fx at the moment and thinking that upgrading to an lt  would be a good option. I could use it direct at rehearsal and have a backup solution live if my amp blew a valve.

really don’t want to go down any rabbit holes and would want it to just work and be good enough.

I didn’t know that needing irs was a thing.

Before you go for the LT, have a play with some IRs using the IR loader within the HXFX. Origin Effects have a good selection for free. 

https://origineffects.com/product/ir-cab-library/

Amalgam also have some when you register with them.

https://www.amalgamcaptures.com/ir-cabs

I've got both libraries on my HXFX and they've really transformed what I can do with a small setup. 

LukeFRC

topdog91 said:

This seems like a good time to bring up my Axe Fx II which sat on a shelf for 2-3 years with the settings barely changing, if at all. I "only" used it for practice and recording and it sounded great so I just shut up and played my guitar. Yes, lots of people fall down the tweaking trap, but it's not the devices' fault.

I had a hx stomp about 3-4 years back - fiddled, fiddled and fiddled and eventually got down to a decent setup for me (bass)

then decided I wasn’t using it ‘to its full potential’, sold it and spent hundreds and hours on individual pedals.

im now thinking of getting one again, thr H9max can go to make space, I don’t think I’ll miss that. Shame they have shot up in price since I sold mine! I’ll keep some analogue pedals.

Having learned what I’m doing what I saw as a flaw then I now see as a positive.

I borrowed a mates stomp to try and it’s definitely improved a lot too - new cabs are way better. Having borrowed a SA Artifakt last year for a big the effects aren’t as good as SA in terms of sound quality - and things like setting an envelope filter to react to the input dynamic, not the dynamics of the fuzz going into it are impossible

UnclePsychosis

I find it interesting that so many people favour a setup like "stomp plus pedals".

That, for me, is the absolute worst of all worlds.

It combines the arse-irritating fannying around with input settings, output settings, EQ shelves, menus, patches, etc of multifx with the absolute teeth-grinding agony of patch cables, power supplies, multiple points of failure, impedance matching awfulness of individual pedals. No thanks. 

One or the other please so that I can maximise the strength of that option and minimise the downsides.

Sporky

Voxman said:

Sorry for any unintended misunderstanding here.

No apology needed, surely? It's a discussion, and clarification and refinement of views are excellent outcomes of discussion.

I don't disagree with that point. I think I separate (in my head, that is) playing music and playing with kit.

I did once build a patch with eight tremolo blocks at different rates to see what it sounded like. Turns out the answer is "silence", which I suppose shouldn't be a surprise. 

topdog91

UnclePsychosis said:

I find it interesting that so many people favour a setup like "stomp plus pedals".

That, for me, is the absolute worst of all worlds.

It combines the arse-irritating fannying around with input settings, output settings, EQ shelves, menus, patches, etc of multifx with the absolute teeth-grinding agony of patch cables, power supplies, multiple points of failure, impedance matching awfulness of individual pedals. No thanks. 

One or the other please so that I can maximise the strength of that option and minimise the downsides.

Yep, not to mention that the individual pedal settings (assuming usual stomp) can't be programmed in to presets, so one's presets are somewhat knobbled.

More power to anyone who makes it work but I feel this is like a "solution" for those who can't decide between these two somewhat competing worlds, or who just like "stuff".

Danny1969

topdog91 said:

UnclePsychosis said:

I find it interesting that so many people favour a setup like "stomp plus pedals".

That, for me, is the absolute worst of all worlds.

It combines the arse-irritating fannying around with input settings, output settings, EQ shelves, menus, patches, etc of multifx with the absolute teeth-grinding agony of patch cables, power supplies, multiple points of failure, impedance matching awfulness of individual pedals. No thanks. 

One or the other please so that I can maximise the strength of that option and minimise the downsides.

Yep, not to mention that the individual pedal settings (assuming usual stomp) can't be programmed in to presets, so one's presets are somewhat knobbled.

More power to anyone who makes it work but I feel this is like a "solution" for those who can't decide between these two somewhat competing worlds, or who just like "stuff".

Well I like the convenience of stored delay setting and reverse settings but can't stand the sound of the Line 6 drives or amps so I have gone done this route myself. 
An H90 would probably work better for me but costs too much 

Heartfeltdawn

UnclePsychosis said:

I find it interesting that so many people favour a setup like "stomp plus pedals".

That, for me, is the absolute worst of all worlds.

It combines the arse-irritating fannying around with input settings, output settings, EQ shelves, menus, patches, etc of multifx with the absolute teeth-grinding agony of patch cables, power supplies, multiple points of failure, impedance matching awfulness of individual pedals. No thanks. 

One or the other please so that I can maximise the strength of that option and minimise the downsides.

Because 'pedals + HX Effects' is the most efficient way of getting the sounds I want. My Stone Roses patch on the HXFX takes up every slot with chorus/reverb/delay/pitch/Leslie options before the last four slots: dual EQ simulating a power amp, dual Cabs with the IR loader, final reverb. Going full pedals would be ultrafaff for me. The simple pedals (dirt and comp) are real, the pedals requiring the faff like double cables for stereo and voltage doublers and shit like that are all virtual. 

topdog91 said:

More power to anyone who makes it work but I feel this is like a "solution" for those who can't decide between these two somewhat competing worlds, or who just like "stuff".

I've ended up with my setup after getting rid of loads of stuff. Five pedals and a HX Effects. When you factor in the PSU and pedalboard, it is coming in at £650 so more expensive than a s/h LT. If I dropped the LPB-3 in favour of an EQ boost block, then we'd be talking equal. 

Voxman

Danny1969 said:

Well I like the convenience of stored delay setting and reverse settings but can't stand the sound of the Line 6 drives or amps so I have gone done this route myself. An H90 would probably work better for me but costs too much 

I know what you mean. I find that so many of the amps and distortions are very samey, which is why I'm not typically excited by seeing upgrades with yet more of these added. And for me many don't sound that great either. For example, the current Marshall JCM800 '2204' model is very lack lustre & I think that's why a new 2203 version was done (coming to Pod Go, already in Helix). And although there are some distortions I like a lot just leave me 'cold'. I remember a big fuss being made about the Horizon Drive that used up a lot of DSP but was added to Pod Go, and for the life of me I just can't see what all the fuss was about.  It could just be me of course not getting the settings right. 

UnclePsychosis said:

I find it interesting that so many people favour a setup like "stomp plus pedals".

That, for me, is the absolute worst of all worlds.

It combines the arse-irritating fannying around with input settings, output settings, EQ shelves, menus, patches, etc of multifx with the absolute teeth-grinding agony of patch cables, power supplies, multiple points of failure, impedance matching awfulness of individual pedals. No thanks. 

One or the other please so that I can maximise the strength of that option and minimise the downsides.

I can kind of see this from both sides and I hear you. But I suppose the beauty of HX Stomp is that if you have some favourite pedals that just 'do it' for you I can also see that you'd want to use those, but with the HX Stomp (or similar) giving you an added dimension/flexibility with other things eg amp models, reverbs/delays etc that might be impractical to include in your set up any other way, to give you 'your tone'.

It's exactly why the HX Stomp concept was designed and why it has proved so popular. The simplicity of stomping your favourite distortion or O/D pedal on/off and tweaking quickly on the fly at a gig or rehearsal is a big plus for many users.  And as mentioned above, not everyone likes eg the distortions and whilst modelling is convenient, even if there is a model of their favourite stomp pedal, many will still prefer the sound, feel and playing dynamics of their original pedal rather than a modeled version.  And for those HX Stomp users that wanted more footswitches, Line 6 listened to its customers and then brought out the Hx Stomp XL.  

So, just horses for courses I think.  And its why Line 6 has been so successful in identifying and developing different Helix products and offshoots (Pod Go, Pod Go Wireless, Pod Go Express) to meet different needs and budgets based on the same underlying technology, and keeping it all fresh with regular upgrades.

relic245

Heartfeltdawn said:

relic245 said:

Oh that comment has worried me.

based on seeing that you can get a used LT for about £500 I was now thinking seriously about one.

i have an hx fx at the moment and thinking that upgrading to an lt  would be a good option. I could use it direct at rehearsal and have a backup solution live if my amp blew a valve.

really don’t want to go down any rabbit holes and would want it to just work and be good enough.

I didn’t know that needing irs was a thing.

Before you go for the LT, have a play with some IRs using the IR loader within the HXFX. Origin Effects have a good selection for free. 

https://origineffects.com/product/ir-cab-library/

Amalgam also have some when you register with them.

https://www.amalgamcaptures.com/ir-cabs

I've got both libraries on my HXFX and they've really transformed what I can do with a small setup. 

Thanks for that @Heartfeltdawn - If I do go the LT route it's more about convenience and redundancy rather than sounds. 

I'm using a marshall DSL40cr and HX FX in 4CM for my main sound and very happy with that. 

I don't have as many footswitches as I'd like so I also have an external midi pedal. 

I'm also a bit OTT when it comes to having redundancy at gigs so I have a tonex (that I love the sound of) that I use for rehearsal straight into the PA and also have it at gigs as a backup incase the amp breaks down. 

All good but it's all a bit of a faff really. 

So my thinking is that if I switched to a helix light then it all becomes a bit easier. 

In the main just using the helix in 4cm for effects, but also having the midi capability I need to control the amp and 8 footswitches. 

I also have a standalone rig to take to rehearsals and if the amp ever does beak down it's just a matter of plugging it into the PA and changing patches. 

I've tried to go ampless before with a HX stomp but really missed the amp and also found myself only 90% happy with the sound so I was always tweaking. 

This could be the best of both worlds. I just have to get into the correct mindset that I don't need the sound to be 100% just gooe enough to be inspiring enough to play well at rehearsal and to get me through a gig if the situation arises. 

Really sounds like I'm talking myself into this Oh and there is one on ebay for £550 or best offer that is only 20 minutes down the road..... I might need to sweet talk my wife into believing how much I really need this...

Sporky

I tried IRs and didn't get why (some) people are so excited about them versus the built-in cabs.

Not saying those people are wrong for them, just that there can be an impression that Helux is no good without 3rd party IRs, and I didn't find that to be the case.

As always, do you. 

stickyfiddle

I have never once used an IR other than to the extent one was built into an amp/cab model already. 

Heartfeltdawn

Sporky said:

I tried IRs and didn't get why (some) people are so excited about them versus the built-in cabs.

Not saying those people are wrong for them, just that there can be an impression that Helux is no good without 3rd party IRs, and I didn't find that to be the case.

As always, do you. 

I agree. I've never used IRs until the last year. It was pure curiosity about the IR loader in the HXFX that got me into using them so I dropped in the Origin and Amalgam free IR libraries and it's really pretty damn good versus the cabs in the other Helix units. 

relic245

Heartfeltdawn said:

Sporky said:

I tried IRs and didn't get why (some) people are so excited about them versus the built-in cabs.

Not saying those people are wrong for them, just that there can be an impression that Helux is no good without 3rd party IRs, and I didn't find that to be the case.

As always, do you. 

I agree. I've never used IRs until the last year. It was pure curiosity about the IR loader in the HXFX that got me into using them so I dropped in the Origin and Amalgam free IR libraries and it's really pretty damn good versus the cabs in the other Helix units. 

I don't actually understand what you would use an IR in the HXFX for?

I thought an IR is basically a speaker emulator. 

If that's true and you put that in an HXFX set up then where is the amp in the equation?

Sporky

You don't need an amp to use a speaker emulator.

I used yo have an Award JD-10 (with analogue speaker simulation) after my Art SGX 2000 Express, because I ran it into PA speakers.

You can have just dirt pedals, then a speaker emulator, for recording.