Were we really that loud?

ElectricXII

On Saturday night we played a gig in a large bar, and a friend of mine measured the SPL with the app on his iPhone. I know these apps aren't particularly accurate, but he told me we were hitting 119 dB regularly during our first set.

We're a 5 piece, so vocals, drums, bass and two guitars with occasional keys. That night only the kick drum and the vocals were going through the PA (an LD Systems Maui 11), and we had vocals in the floor monitors.

Our new drummer hits harder than our previous one, but I didn't feel that we were significantly louder than usual, and there were no complaints from the management or clientele though.

However 119 dB seems like a big number.

maltingsaudio

Doubt it, and obviously depends on where he was measuring from, but very highly unlikely it was that loud in the room. If it was punters would have left. I would get him to buy a soundmeter learn a bit about sound , and become a sound person because anyone can do it, my mate toured with Magnum.. ( These idiots with their free apps on a  very expensive phone which has a tuppenny halfpenny mic in them really get up my nose)

Whistler

119dBA or 119dBC?

Plectrum

I don't think I'd trust a phone to measure these things.

ElectricXII

Whistler said:

119dBA or 119dBC?

My friend didn’t say. I did tell him that I doubted the accuracy of his app. 

Evo

I wouldn't worry either way, your kick drum through the PA would have been what peaked it. 

dB isn't really much cop when it comes to measuring the overall loudness of a band as the low boomy stuff like bass guitars and kick drums will drastically over inflate the readings. 

I don't know how much experience you have on the wedding band/function circuit but I certainly developed a severe allergy to measuring dB after a few gigs trying to deal with sound limiters set up by clueless venue owners. 

ScreamingDave

The most accurate way of measuring sound level at a gig is the old bloke at the back who keeps coming and telling you you’re too loud

Danny1969

Noise limiters are normally A weighted, which means they are more sensitive to mid frequencies rather than low .. the idea is the limiter mimics our hearing response. In practice this means it's the snare in a band or the vocal that triggers it. 

I've had many a battle over the years doing weddings. At one point I ran the whole band off a giant HP UPS, I made a simple voltage divider for the older units with the external mic on a 3.5mm jack, we've bribed waiters to let us plug into the kitchen ring main, we've persuaded managers to disable the bloody thing. 

These days I'm mainly playing proper venues and it' not an issue anymore thank god 

ElectricXII

Evo said:

I don't know how much experience you have on the wedding band/function circuit but I certainly developed a severe allergy to measuring dB after a few gigs trying to deal with sound limiters set up by clueless venue owners. 

I'm not ready to sell my soul yet!

ICBM

Danny1969 said:

Noise limiters are normally A weighted, which means they are more sensitive to mid frequencies rather than low .. the idea is the limiter mimics our hearing response. In practice this means it's the snare in a band or the vocal that triggers it. 

I've had many a battle over the years doing weddings. At one point I ran the whole band off a giant HP UPS, I made a simple voltage divider for the older units with the external mic on a 3.5mm jack, we've bribed waiters to let us plug into the kitchen ring main, we've persuaded managers to disable the bloody thing.

The massive UPS is actually the funniest solution as well as the best - discounting the cost and sheer inconvenience of moving the thing, anyway - the limiter does its merry little light show and cuts off, the band keeps going as if nothing whatever has happened .

I once played a place where standing on the stage at set-up with my as-yet unplugged acoustic guitar and strumming a big open chord made the limiter go to three red bars straight away. Ludicrous if they thought that was viable for live music. We did manage to play - luckily it was just a vocals/acoustic guitar/digital piano band so really the only thing going through the PA was the piano and a tiny bit of vocal - and even that was more so the singer could hide behind the mic stand .

Jalapeno

Danny1969 said:

Noise limiters are normally A weighted, which means they are more sensitive to mid frequencies rather than low .. the idea is the limiter mimics our hearing response. In practice this means it's the snare in a band or the vocal that triggers it. 

I've had many a battle over the years doing weddings. At one point I ran the whole band off a giant HP UPS, I made a simple voltage divider for the older units with the external mic on a 3.5mm jack, we've bribed waiters to let us plug into the kitchen ring main, we've persuaded managers to disable the bloody thing. 

These days I'm mainly playing proper venues and it' not an issue anymore thank god 

Where I used to practice jazz my guitar was the only amplified instrument. One toot for a trumpet would cut the ring main (and oddly the lights which struck me a H&S no-no).  Turns out the key custodian had taken it on himself turn down the threshold "a bit". Angry words exchanged and installed setting reinstated for next meeting.

Bod

My covers band was booked to play a local pub.  Our drummer played an e-kit so it was really easy to control the volumes.  The landlady told us to turn down during the soundcheck, which we dutifully did only to be told that it was still too loud.  This happened several times until the volume was so loud that I could hear the sound of the bassist's strings from the opposite side of the "stage" area.

It was an awful gig, and really we should have taken a stand and left because they really shouldn't be booking bands if their noise restrictions were so severe.  Goodness knows how they would have coped with a proper acoustic kit.

PolarityMan

I remember playing a gig with my Uni band where it was a combined bingo and band night (for some reason). the place had a limiter which we set off in our most chill song.

Once we had done it once we then tried to set it off but even on our louder / heavier songs although it peaked in the red it never quite triggered the limit.

We did win a crate of beer at the bingo though so while it was a shit gig it wasnt a total loss.

More recently our last gig the argent metal style synth break down in one of our songs was rumbling full pint glasses off the shelf that was round the wall which was quite fun. 

Stratavarious

Pop up banners and thick clothing seem to attract limiters in some venues we’ve played.. for some reason  

p90fool

We once had to nick all the helium balloons from the tables in one wedding venue to surround the ceiling-mounted limiter with. It worked pretty well. 

Sporky

I did an I stallation for a university's sports centre where they were concerned about their duty of care. We measured the existing system peaking at 121dB SPL during a Zumba class where the instructor complained that it wasn't loud enough.

Sometimes - not always,  but definitely sometimes - it's not the limiter that's unreasonable. 

Hootsmon

When I was a youngster we played a room in a pub every Thursday and Friday

I had 2x4x12 and a Sound city 120 dimmed. There were room for around 50 in the place and the bottles and glasses would fly off the gantry the whole night due to racket and vibrations...LOUD? pffff in those days we were MEN!!!!!

Huh?

I SAID...IN THOSE DAYS WE WERE MEN!!!!!!!!!!

ICBM

Sporky said:

I did an I stallation for a university's sports centre where they were concerned about their duty of care. We measured the existing system peaking at 121dB SPL during a Zumba class where the instructor complained that it wasn't loud enough.

Literally the most painful sound I've ever heard in a confined space was nothing to do with music - it was a horde of young girls in the Brownies, running around screaming all at once in a gymnasium. The space must have been built with a perfect ratio of dimensions that reinforced the upper-mid frequencies, and of course with a huge natural reverb so it just built and built until the entire space seemed to be ringing. I have no idea what the SPL was, but it was utterly excruciating.

mike257

Whenever noise levels get measured (properly) in a professional setting, they're done as an average rather than a peak measurement. Limits are usually represented as something like 105dB LAeq15 - which is A weighted and averaged over 15 minutes. When I've done noise management plans for festival sites, that's the sort of measurements we use, and the proper meters to measure them accurately cost a small fortune and require regular calibration to maintain accuracy. 

Chances are, with a basic sound meter app, the iPad is looking at peak measurements, which can easily hit the high numbers you're talking about for a split second, but wouldn't be considered a relevant measurement by any licensing authority.