Anyone here use Reaper and could help a noob?

skunkwerx

I'm a bit lost. 

For now, all I wish to do is record guitar tracks and vocal tracks, and then export them as mp3's or whatever is best to then sync up with video I've shot in my video editing software. 

Very basic. But bear in mind I have little to no idea what I'm doing. I have looked up videos on using Reaper but I get overwhelmed very quick because people are doing much more complex things than I am doing, and they all have multiple tracks, talk of busses and master folders and compressors and limiters and allsorts which I have no idea about, and I'm lost very quick! 

My set up: 
For the guitar, Im recording via emulated line out on the amp into a Scarlett Solo input 1. 

For vocals I'm using an SE x1a condenser into the input 2 of the Scarlett Solo. 

I set the gain for each input on the Scarlett to sit somewhere between -6db or so, in the green/yellow or even louder but so that I'm not clipping. 

I record into reaper. So far I know how to open reaper, make a track appear, assign it to input 1 or input 2, and how to then make it record. 

I then know how to export to get an Mp3. 

That is honestly the extent of my knowledge really. 

My issue: 
The resulting recordings seem a bit quiet. I cant go much higher on the focusrites gain though. And now I'm stuck! 

In fact I have heard its better to record a bit lower, between -18 to -12db, but then my recordings are even lower in volume.. both when playing back my recordings in reaper and when I've exported them. Like my laptop or phone can be on max volume and my audio is low compared to say another youtubers audio level. 

When monitoring the volume is ok, but then it would be right because I can just turn my master volume on the amp up (which does NOT affect the volume going into the focusrite), or just turn up the headphone volume when using them, by using the headphone volume control on the focusrite. 


Can anyone help with raising the volume of my recordings in Reaper, or advise/educate me based on anything I've said?

What is weird, is when I recorded my guitar directly into the scarlett and used a VST plug in, Amplitude, I got a real nice recording in terms of volume, louder than when I recorded via the line out of the amp, yet I'm sure I set the gain on the scarlett to be about the same, basically as close to -0db without clipping. 

I also recorded some guitars that I then put to a drum and bass backing track in my video editor, and actually turned down the volume of both backing track and guitars by a few db just using the video editors volume adjustments as it seemed a little too loud overall. This 'mix' then I think sounds pretty good. 

But I dont know what that mix sounded louder from the get go.. maybe I recorded 'hotter'.. 

mrkb

Normalise the track after recording it. I think you can access that by right mouse button on track and look for that in the menu.

Musicwolf

skunkwerx said:

In fact I have heard its better to record a bit lower

Yes, absolutely.

Back in the old days, when dinosaurs roamed the earth and we used to record onto something called 'magnetic tape' (which we used to fashion from strips of Mammoth hide), then it was the practice to push levels to the max.  This was to improve the signal to noise ratio.

A consequence of this is that we frequently ran out of headroom i.e. we'd set the level but then along would come a much louder note or hit and it would distort.  The good news was that tape distorted is a nice way and in fact sometimes we would use this 'tape compression' in a creative way.

With digital we don't have this benevolent tape compression effect (we can simulate it with a plug in).  When you go above the max with digital, that's the take buggered (technical term).  The good news is that the noise floor is, however, very low and with 24 bit (i.e. most digital recorders / DAWs) you have oodles of headroom, so don't push the levels.

As has been said above, you can always boost the overall level afterwards (I don't favour normalisation, I set levels against a loudness meter).

When we first migrated from analogue to digital a lot of Engineers, myself included, found it difficult to break the old habits and used to push the levels.  This methodology seems to have somehow passed to the next generation who have probably never used tape.

Stratavarious

Normalise is useful to know to get tracks with differing levels into the same ballpark level wise.

Right click a track > Item Processing > Normalise items.  Use the default settings.  It is also in the Item menu.

Reacomp on the master to glue stuff up and sometimes I use Realimit there to crush some bigger transients and up the whole level without clipping.

When you export/render, you can also raise the masters.  You should see a view of the audio file and any clipping marked in colour.

More on normalise… useful to avoid pushing the sliders all the way up but not vital if you have a clean recording.

https://youtu.be/8G4o6B2SAE8?feature=shared

Danny1969

Don't record hotter going in, no need to and risks distorting the audio. Once the audio is finished bounce / render it to a stereo wav and then do a quick and amature  "master " to that wav. That basically means putting an EQ, compressor and limiter on the master bus then try this. 

Pull down all the frequencies you don't really want .. everything below 60Hz .. and above 18Khz ish 
Set the compressor with a ratio of 3:1 and adjust the threshold so it's showing around 6dB of gain reduction. 
Then set the limiters max out to -3dB and lower the threshold until it's knocking off the loudest peaks and nothing clips. 

That will get it competitively loud. As I said it's an amature way of doing it compared to a professional master but quick, easy and effective for non profession applications like Youtube vids 

andy_k

I usually just put Reapers limiter on every track, set it to -1db, true peak, and then can use it as a volume plugin with a safety net to stop clipping.
Another thing you can do, is to increase the volume on the actual track, depending on how you have Reaper set up, mine shows a small vol knob, and increasing that will make the waveform bigger.
Usually, we record at around -18 db, to give some headroom for adding level with plugins, but it is easy to get a bit carried away sometimes, and the track will clip, my limiter trick means it can never clip above -1db, good enough for rough mixing.
Mastering, gets a bit more involved, as I like to use the JS Loudness meter on my master bus, and try to mix to something between -14 / -8 LUFS integrated.
-8 is a loud mix, -14 is standard for most streaming platforms, but they do vary.

skunkwerx

Thanks all. Much appreciated. 

Ah so, would it be normal process to record quieter, say within -12 to -8db or something, but then have to raise the volumes somehow afterward? 

If thats true, then yup, I did not know this, but like I say I have zero experience of daws, interfaces or recording! 

markv

Your setup is almost the same as mine! It took me a little while to find my way around Reaper, but it was fun doing so.

As you say there are loads of videos around but pretty much the official ones are Kenny Gioia's and in this playlist he starts from absolute basics: 

Might not answer your specific question about making things louder, but people above have done that - but it might answer lots of other questions you have

fastonebaz

Hi
My name
Is Kenny
And I'm about
To tell you all
The key info
About reaper
Just install
The application 
And let's
Find out more
About Reaper.

markv

At first the way he speaks really irritated me but now I find it quite charming. I think he says in one video it's because he was told to slow down, and I love that he slowed down by carrying on at the same speed, but stopping every 3 words.

skunkwerx

markv said:

Your setup is almost the same as mine! It took me a little while to find my way around Reaper, but it was fun doing so.

As you say there are loads of videos around but pretty much the official ones are Kenny Gioia's and in this playlist he starts from absolute basics: 

Might not answer your specific question about making things louder, but people above have done that - but it might answer lots of other questions you have

Thanks mate, thats cool, I've watched the playlist now and learnt a few bits there, cheers! 

andy_k

Don't forget that when you have a project set up just how you like it, you can save it as a template so all the routing and plugins are in place.
You don't have to actually create it as a template, just open an existing project - delete the audio and save as new.
I have a folder for projects that I have set up in different ways, for different jobs, it helps to get in a routine sometimes, and sometimes it is nice to start from a blank canvass.
When you are inside a project, you can also save tracks as Track templates, which is also a good way of importing a BUS set of tracks, ie a DRUM BUS, containing all the VSTs you want already loaded.
The possibilities are endless.

skunkwerx

Danny1969 said:

Don't record hotter going in, no need to and risks distorting the audio. Once the audio is finished bounce / render it to a stereo wav and then do a quick and amature  "master " to that wav. That basically means putting an EQ, compressor and limiter on the master bus then try this. 

Pull down all the frequencies you don't really want .. everything below 60Hz .. and above 18Khz ish 
Set the compressor with a ratio of 3:1 and adjust the threshold so it's showing around 6dB of gain reduction. 
Then set the limiters max out to -3dB and lower the threshold until it's knocking off the loudest peaks and nothing clips. 

That will get it competitively loud. As I said it's an amature way of doing it compared to a professional master but quick, easy and effective for non profession applications like Youtube vids 

Thanks mate. 

Quick question about the limiter. I think I follow you so far up to that point. 

Is the limiter a separate fx or is it part of the compressor?

Heres a pic of where I'm at when opening the compressor: 

So set the threshold (red arrow) to -6, ratio 3:1. 

But what I've circled in green, is that the limiter/what I set to -3 on the wet, and when you say then lower the threshold, do you mean go back to the red arrow slider and decrease, or are both the max out and threshold part of a separate limiter fx? If that makes sense? 

Thanks mate, much appreciated for everyones help so far!

I did quickly try something I saw in a youtube vid, whereby just used the compressor, set threshold to -20db and ratio 3:1 then that made the overall audio quieter, so then the fella said click the auto make up box, which brought the volume back in. This gave the highest lufs around 13 when exported. Still sounded about the same as just turning the volume up by 5db or so when comparing to a render I tried last night.

andy_k

This is where I learned what I know about the Limiter in Reaper.


I like to use it on a lot of different tracks, for different reasons, but mainly just as a bit of security for drum stuff.
The stuff about LUFs is useful when you are working towards a final master, but for general mixing I just play about with the limiter to raise volumes on a bus, or an individual track, without risking any digital clipping.
I set mine to be working in True peak mode, with a brickwall ceiling of -1db, and most of the time it isn't doing anything at all,it is just useful to see how close any of my tracks are getting to the limit.
Compression is a bit more complicated, as it is also raising the quietest parts up to a threshold, and has speed, release and knee components to play with which can all be used to effect the final performance, so there is a lot more to be aware of.
Bus compression, can add a lot of character to a final mix, but can easily destroy dynamics, and exaggerate a flawed performance, Ie, vocals will need to be recorded very cleanly, and the problem of sybilance and breaths can then be something that needs taking care of.
I do a lot of stuff with drums, so sudden peaks are something I have to be very aware of, and compression messes up cymbals for me very easily.
I like the Limiter a lot.

Musicwolf

It is important to note that the Reaper, or any DAW, compressor / limiter is processing the digital signal i.e. after it has been recorded.  So, useful whilst mixing.

If your signal is too hot going into the DAW to begin with, then it's going to clip.

flying_pie

Don't worry too much about track volume as long as all the tracks are balanced when you listen to them. That's what is referred to as mixing and it's usually done at a lower volume with the focus on getting all the elements balanced (or taking out all the bass if you're Lars Ulrich).

Getting the mix loud enough is done in the mastering stage. While loudness meters have their use, I think it's easier to use a reference recording such as a professional MP3 or SoundCloud recand and A/B your track until they feel the same loudness. I also use my typical volume on my car stereo on normal roads as an indicator is okay

Danny1969

skunkwerx said:

Danny1969 said:

Don't record hotter going in, no need to and risks distorting the audio. Once the audio is finished bounce / render it to a stereo wav and then do a quick and amature  "master " to that wav. That basically means putting an EQ, compressor and limiter on the master bus then try this. 

Pull down all the frequencies you don't really want .. everything below 60Hz .. and above 18Khz ish 
Set the compressor with a ratio of 3:1 and adjust the threshold so it's showing around 6dB of gain reduction. 
Then set the limiters max out to -3dB and lower the threshold until it's knocking off the loudest peaks and nothing clips. 

That will get it competitively loud. As I said it's an amature way of doing it compared to a professional master but quick, easy and effective for non profession applications like Youtube vids 

Thanks mate. 

Quick question about the limiter. I think I follow you so far up to that point. 

Is the limiter a separate fx or is it part of the compressor?

Heres a pic of where I'm at when opening the compressor: 

So set the threshold (red arrow) to -6, ratio 3:1. 

But what I've circled in green, is that the limiter/what I set to -3 on the wet, and when you say then lower the threshold, do you mean go back to the red arrow slider and decrease, or are both the max out and threshold part of a separate limiter fx? If that makes sense? 

Thanks mate, much appreciated for everyones help so far!

I did quickly try something I saw in a youtube vid, whereby just used the compressor, set threshold to -20db and ratio 3:1 then that made the overall audio quieter, so then the fella said click the auto make up box, which brought the volume back in. This gave the highest lufs around 13 when exported. Still sounded about the same as just turning the volume up by 5db or so when comparing to a render I tried last night.

You don't normally have a wet / dry control on a compressor.  Normally the entire signal  will be processed by the compressor so 100 wet in those terms and no dry at all. A wet / dry thing is useful for parallel compression but not for this purpose. 

By gain reduction I mean you should see the meters showing 6dB of gain reduction of the louder parts. 

A compressor squashes any audio over the threshold level by the ratio you have set. So if you set the threshold to -6dB and the ratio to 3:1 then any audio peaking over -6dB will be  squashed by a ratio of 3:1 .. it can still exceed the threshold though 

A limiter  can be considered as a compressor with an infinite ratio ... any audio exceeding the threshold will be squashed by as heavy a ratio as is needed to keep it exceeding the threshold.

In general the compressor smoothes the audio out level wise to a large degree but some parts will still be peaky , the limiter catches and tames the peaks preventing the audio from clipping

So I generally use a compressor AND a limiter on the master bus for quick masters to bring the level up. 

The largest level digital audio can process is 0dBFS so everything is a - level relative to that. If you can get the peaks / transients under control with a compressor and limiter then you can bring the level of that audio up without the peaks exceeding the 0dBFS and thus get it louder without any clipping. 

Care should be taken along the way though to make sure the individual tracks care under control volume wise. The better the job you do here the less you need to do on the master bus and the better the mix. 

It's all a learning curve so keep at it and have fun 

andy_k

Just a thought re- recording your guitars, you mentioned how when you used Amplitube you seemed to get better results.
It is quite common practice to be recording into your DAW, with the signal hitting around -18 db, which seems quite low, but is apparently the 'sweet spot' for most plugins, and when you are listening to a recorded track via a plugin, ie  Amplitube, you are not actually seeing the waveform of the thing you are hearing, as the sound of the plugin is coming after the faders and the channel strip.
Can be a little weird to see such a small waveform, and be hearing a loud gainy sound, but the Master fader is the one that you need to be keeping an eye on.
A distorted guitar sound, if recorded, is much easier to get to a good level, as you will see it has already been compressed, or clipped, by the effect--the signal has been smoothed out by the distortion, which is why it is sometimes called 'clipping', but this is not the same thing as 'digital clipping', which is when the signal goes above 0db, and the Master fader goes red.
Digital clipping is actually bad for speakers, but you'd hear it first, it sounds bad.
If you are taking your guitar signal from the 'line out' from your amp, you will probably be recording some form of slightly distorted signal, unless it is a very clean sound, and it could be recorded at slightly higher signal than -18db, as the sound is pretty much complete, but it still should have some room for extra processing, such as delay or reverb, and these FX are additions to your sound, so it would become louder, by addition.
Vocals are a bit more in need of compression, to allow the track to be levelled up in a mix, as they are usually quite dynamic performances, more like a guitar DI, or a very clean sound.
When we set these sort of things up, in a mix, we talk of 'gain staging', which simply means, we get louder in stages, until we hit our final target, ie 'the mix', and really there is a final stage, 'the master', which is the version that gets played out in public, and has to compete with all the other 'mixes' ( really Masters ) out there.
Mastering is the dark art of getting a mix as close to 'clipping' as possible, without ever crossing the 0db threshold and still sounding 'dynamic', and we have lived through something called 'the Loudness wars', which was probably started by Oasis, and the album 'Definately Maybe', at least that's who I blame.
It's no secret that louder sounds better, but there is a reason why people don't have to continually alter their volume when listening to a playlist on Spotify, or whatever, and it is a fascinating process we now have to work with.
Basically a long way of explaining why we tend to record and mix the way we do these days 'in the box', things were a bit different when recordings were done onto tape, which tended to sound a little better if the meters went into the red occasionally, it wasn't the end of the world, and is why a lot of old recordings sound so exciting, natural analogue distortion across the whole mix.
Modern equipment is quite forgiving, but when you try to release a track into the wild, by any digital platform, it will need to be at a certain level, now standardised as the LUFS scale, however the actual number is somewhere between -14db, to -9db, as the platforms are still trying to play the same games with loudness.
Bear in mind that 6db is twice as loud, in real terms, but 1db, is probably the smallest difference we can hear, 1.5db is a single press on a tv remote, and you usually have to press it twice to change volume, 3db up or down.
Ears are weird.

crosstownvamp

When you render the file the little waveform output panel shows clipping peaks in red so it's worth watching that panel as you render. The numeric output show the amount of 'over'. It's then a bit of a dance to lower the output volume master and hope it's under enough to conform to LUFS levels.

No need to spend ages maxing out the levels when recording, I've had stuff at micro waveform compared to other tracks when there's been some screw up, and normalise (control shift N) makes it perfectly usable if not ideal.