Attempted a workflow shake-up (Reaper to Ableton) - stuck in a bit of a loop

ewal

So I've been using Reaper for years and not overly productive, so I recently tried to shake things up a bit, and now find myself completely bogged down by indecision. To summarise

- My daughter and I decided to do a recording project together collaborating remotely.
- We agreed to lean a bit more in to electronic styles, which then resulted in me acquiring a Maschine Mikro and buying a load of drum samples from Samples from Mars.
- I've built a bunch of kits with these using Sitala within Reaper. I could see where I was going with that, but...
- Progress with Maschine was initially slow, but starting to come up with some nice simple loop based ideas with this. But couldn't really see how this would fit in with Reaper.
- I then decided that Ableton might be a better DAW for the sort of music we want to make - I've used it a bit several years ago, so was familiar with the Session view - similar to Maschine but with more DAW capability.
- Started to toy with the idea of getting away from the screen and going down a hardware, drum machine and synth route. But then realised that was just an expense, and unlikely to be any more productive. Decided to stick with a software based approach.
- Ableton undoubtedly has potential but I'm on a learning curve and nowhere near getting to the point that I'm making the music I want to make.
- My daughter and I are heading to a cottage in July to make music together, so I need to sort things out and get to the point, we've got some instruments of choice, that we are sufficiently familiar with to be productive.

I go round in circles - where do I want to focus my beat making efforts - Sitala in Reaper, Maschine, or Abelton. What synths do I want to use - I have this idea of a synth bass, some atmospheric pads and organs, complementing what we can do with live instruments. I'm getting ahead of myself, thinking that if we get the set-up right, we might be able to perform as a two piece using beats and loops as foundation for us to play live and sing over. I guess this ambition of playing the project live and releasing a recording is the ultimate goal.

It's overthinking everything madness! Is it an age thing??

I think I need to focus on one thing at a time and just now it's learning Ableton - I need to know if I am capable of producing using it. If I can get beats, loops and synths I'm happy with organised within Ableton, then maybe the likes of Maschine, Sitala etc, become superfluous... But then there's that nagging appeal of the 'simplicity' of having a drum machine, a couple of cheap synths plugged in to an interface, then just using the software for recording and mixing...

Just offloading - I know that I'm the only one who can sort my thinking out and I need constraints, not an ocean of choice, for us to have any hope of being productive.

andy_k

Life is too short to be learning new DAWs,
I would just treat Reaper as the master recorder, and have templates set up for different tasks.
I tried to get into Ableton, back before I went fully Reaper, after using Logic and Pro Tools at college, and found it pretty impenetrable for anything other than dance type, loop based music.
Maybe I didn't give it enough time, but when I saw the potential in Reaper, it was a no brainer.
If you are being creative, you need a fairly immediate work flow, and if you are sketching out ideas with hardware, you just need a way of recording those ideas, to then be able to build on them.
Treat Reaper as a big tape recorder, and when the projects evolve, you can expand the session with tabs, linked projects, lanes , takes etc etc.
YMMV obviously.

ewal

Hmmm... Yes. Might give Ableton the length of the trial - 20 days or so - and if I cant see any obvious creative benefits, go back to Reaper. I know how to loop in Reaper, Sitala is capable enough as drum machine (although still got a bit of a hardware drum machine itch...), all the instruments we need are there as VSTs, could use Maschine as a creative toy.

Maybe I leave Ableton learning to my daughter, who's talking about other projects (DJ'ing, acid jazz) which are much more Ableton centric.

I need to set constraints and work within them. The Ableton universe is the exact opposite. Jeez, I even sweated and procrastinated for weeks over HX Stomp amp models!!!

Leisceoir

I find Ableton to be really intuitive and easy to use and all other DAWs to be illogical in a painful and vindictive way. This is only because Ableton is what I use all the time and I don’t have time or patience to learn anything else. Stick to the one you know, your DAW might be your only ally as you wade through the frustrating mess of getting a workflow going. Everyone finds this convoluted and annoying - keep working at it and try to keep it simple is the only advice I can give you. 

andy_k

The main thing I like about Reaper, is its flexibility.
When I very rarely try to open up an old project in Logic, or PT, I immediately remember how much I hated the workflow, specific shortcuts to do the most basic tasks, and weird organisation in the mixer, having to switch between views, etc etc.
I chose my last PC ( Asus Zenbook Vision ) specifically for the extra screen to display the mixer panel in Reaper, and this screen also doubles as a keyboard for playing midi instruments.
This allows the arrangement window to look as sparse as I like it, every function is there, but hidden a couple of layers down in the menus.
I like to start from a blank canvass, as much as I like to start with a full mix template, and I have DRUM BUS, BASS BUS etc, track templates set up, so a basic riff idea can be quickly built up into a full mix project, by bringing in the drum and bass VST tracks I have set up.
I remember Logic asking me to decide on the type of project I wanted when I opened a new one, which often added elements that I would never use, just made things confusing.
You had a recent thread about working on hardware recorders, and I suggested the Zoom R16, which is something I also used to use a lot - a great multifunction tool that covers a lot of ground, 8 mic inputs, and can be used as a DAW controller, as well as a stand alone HD recorder with built in mics, covers a lot of ground for when you need to get something down.
A hardware mixer can be very useful for getting a basic idea off the ground, and once you have the foundations the idea can be fleshed out as a Reaper project.
I have ( had ) a full version of Ableton 10, and could almost see it's potential as performance software, but I struggled to even get some demo tracks to work, as the libraries were missing, so I quickly gave up, as I didn't want to lock myself into another eco-system, with huge libraries of sounds that I would never use ( Logic)
I prefer the idea of something like Sitala, with a more limited selection, and I also use a piece of software called UNIFY, by Pluginguru, that is another swiss army knife application, built in sampler / midi / FX / synth / VST host---it does an awful lot, for not a lot, HIGHLY reccomended.

ewal

Great advice both 

You touch on some other things that are at the back of my mind. Reaper just works. It never crashes and never maxes out CPU etc. I suspect there's a risk of technical glitches with Ableton I've yet to encounter. Maybe unfair but been there before with other software. Rock solid performance is maybe one of the reasons Reaper has stuck with me.

Ach I'll give Ableton 20 days and then make a call. I've been in gear/workflow procrastination mode for too long.

ewal

And yes the libraries of sounds dilemma - same goes with NI ecosystem. So much potential but with that comes wasted time and lock-in.

ewal

This is helping folks...

Stratavarious

Would an Akai MPC suit the working in a cottage and live performance angles better?  Just turn up with hardware and hit the pads/keys.

https://youtu.be/eb7ZGn2ya98?feature=shared


https://www.akaipro.com/mpc-key-61.html

Logic on Mac is chock full of loops and cool sounds too.

ewal

The Akai looks great, but just don't have bandwidth to learn another system. Likewise for Logic.

Definitely focussing on a Reaper or Ableton based workflow. By the time we get to the cottage I hope to have a few song foundations to work on, and/or a very limited set of instruments/VSTs/presets ready to use to create new stuff. I'll probably end up taking my Mac mini and interface, a cheap digital multitrack, or maybe a (2nd hand) laptop if I'm feeling flush.

The only itch for new gear that lingers is for a drum machine - Electron Model Samples or Korg Electribe look good fun. Also if I saw a great deal for a 2nd hand portable synth I might be tempted. But anything new would be a distraction right now - we've got enough options already. Will only look at new gear again once I've settled on core workflow.