Sorted: I'd like a new audio interface - advice please

TheBigDipper

I've only owned three audio interfaces in my 12 years of having one for recording using my DAW. 
 - Presonus AudioBox  iTwo (I started recording using an iPad)
- Audient Sono
- Yamaha MG10XU mixer (has audio interface inside)

Just by chance, I found myself using my Tonex pedal as the audio interface, because I get better sounds from the pedal than I do from using the Tonex plugin or even the S-Gear plugin (which is the best plugin I've got for guitars, to my ears). I thought using the Tonex Pedal would avoid an extra A/D/A conversion and why not just bypass the MG10 altogether for guitar tracking? 

I never got that far. The Tonex pedal, just playing back recorded audio, sounds much better than the MG10. Warmer, more punch and more musical. Enough to make me want to replace the MG10 as an interface and just use it as a mixer where appropriate.

So, what should I look at for a noticeable step up in quality over the ones I've owned previously? I mainly record voices and acoustic guitars using mics, guitars and basses plugging in direct (passive and active pickups), and quite a lot of software instruments and software drums using a MIDI keyboard that plugs into a USB-A port, not the audio interface (although it could). 

I never record more than one or two sources at the same time. But most of my day-to-day use of the audio interface is to listen to audio, not record it. A MIDI interface would be nice to have but not essential. The computer is a Mac Mini 2, so I've got USB-A and USB-C/Thunderbolt ports. It doesn't have to be USB-powered. 

What should I look at? And if you have time to expand on your suggestion, why? There's a lot of choice out there. Thanks! 

Vintage65

All roads lead to RME. Great drivers with regular updates, relatively transparent converters, and their devices are supported for many years. You pay a bit more, but they just work.

octatonic

If you aren't looking at high end then Universal Audio and RME are the best options.

UA are great if you want vintage recreations of classic analogue gear via plugins that can be used with zero latency.
The plugins can be a bit of a financial money pit and they annoyingly don't allow you to uninstall plugins you don't own from Logic/Pro Tools etc except by manually dragging them out of the plugin folder one by one.
It is infuriating- UA are always seemingly about the upsell.

RME have rock solid drivers but IMHO have a bit of a weird feature set sometimes.
It really annoys me that so many RME products are half rack space- it makes racking them difficult.
I've reviewed a bunch of RME devices though and they are really stable.
Their manuals are laughably ridiculous at times though- they *really* need to outsource their manual writing to someone who is a native english speaker (or at least that was the case the last time I looked).

If you understand RME as being built by a 'German engineer' and UA being designed by 'USA marketing types' then it sort of summarises their respective strengths and weaknesses.

Both have good quality converters. 
I wouldn't agree they are transparent compared with high end (Avid MTRX, DAD AX64, Prism, Merging etc but they are more than serviceable. 

Start with Universal Audio Apollo Twin X and RME Fireface UCX II and see if the features set is what you want.

Vintage65

octatonic said:

Both have good quality converters. 
I wouldn't agree they are transparent compared with high end (Avid MTRX, DAD AX64, Prism, Merging etc but they are more than serviceable. 

I've updated my comment to relatively transparent. Obviously not mastering grade converters, but adequate for a multi-functional audio interface. While we are on the subject, why are top of the line converters so expensive?

octatonic

Vintage65 said:

octatonic said:

Both have good quality converters. 
I wouldn't agree they are transparent compared with high end (Avid MTRX, DAD AX64, Prism, Merging etc but they are more than serviceable. 

I've updated my comment to relatively transparent. Obviously not mastering grade converters, but adequate for a multi-functional audio interface. While we are on the subject, why are top of the line converters so expensive?

Smaller market for them.

I reckon for every MTRX II that is sold (at £7000 BEFORE you buy the AD DA boards) that UA will sell 1000 Apollos.
When you get into Prism and Merging there are even fewer sales.

The tech IS better.
I'n using a mixture of MTRX/DAD converters, plus some other converters from Focusrite (Rednet), Apogee (Rosetta), Ferrofish (Pulse 16DX CV) and an SSL Alphalink AX.

I put the spendy mic preamps and outboard on the MTRX/DAD converters, and of course my monitors.
The Ferrofish has my modular synth inputs, the Rednet has secondary preamps and the SSL Alphalink is mostly used for headphone feeds and less high end outboard

In the case of the Avid MTRX II you are also getting a monitor controller, huge expandability, it talks all audio formats (analogue, AES, Dante, MADI coax and optical, thunderbolt, Digilink, has a huge multipoint patching matrix and does room correction. 

Also, show me a less high end interface where you could have 256 channels of IO to a DAW with sub 3ms latency with absolute stability? With HDX I get latency around 0.9ms at 96kHz.

joeW

I like UA as the sound is excellent with their vintage styled plugins and all works seamlessly with their Apollo interface.  More stable in use than an Antelope Audio I had

TheBigDipper

Thanks for the input, folks. With the best will in the world, I can't justify those prices to myself. I'm not that serious about recording - I just make demos.

Are there any obvious contenders I should look at in the £200-£300 price range? New or used. TIA... 

octatonic

Focusrite Scarlett.4i4 4th generation.

duotone

Give these a listen with decent headphones or studio monitors, and see if you can hear a difference between the different models.

Top budget Audio Interfaces in the world

https://youtu.be/t2VnP-RfwqY?si=VsZP9RkOw5MijZiX

CHEAP vs EXPENSIVE Interfaces  WORTH IT?

https://youtu.be/fcnIYrwetjs?si=X4ZR_KiVnT53pixd

octatonic

duotone said:

Give these a listen with decent headphones or studio monitors, and see if you can hear a difference between the different models.

Top budget Audio Interfaces in the world

https://youtu.be/t2VnP-RfwqY?si=VsZP9RkOw5MijZiX

CHEAP vs EXPENSIVE Interfaces  WORTH IT?

https://youtu.be/fcnIYrwetjs?si=X4ZR_KiVnT53pixd

You cannot make critical decisions like this through Youtube.
It is utterly pointless.

Most of these videos are a form of advertorial.

duotone

octatonic said:

duotone said:

Give these a listen with decent headphones or studio monitors, and see if you can hear a difference between the different models.

Top budget Audio Interfaces in the world

https://youtu.be/t2VnP-RfwqY?si=VsZP9RkOw5MijZiX

CHEAP vs EXPENSIVE Interfaces  WORTH IT?

https://youtu.be/fcnIYrwetjs?si=X4ZR_KiVnT53pixd

You cannot make critical decisions like this through Youtube.
It is utterly pointless.

Most of these videos are a form of advertorial.

I thought it would be helpful to get an overview of various models, but if you don't agree I umderstand why.

Winny_Pooh

I'm still happy with an Audient ID22 many years on. Zero latency direct monitoring, nice sound and has a monitor controller built in. 

octatonic

duotone said:

octatonic said:

duotone said:

Give these a listen with decent headphones or studio monitors, and see if you can hear a difference between the different models.

Top budget Audio Interfaces in the world

https://youtu.be/t2VnP-RfwqY?si=VsZP9RkOw5MijZiX

CHEAP vs EXPENSIVE Interfaces  WORTH IT?

https://youtu.be/fcnIYrwetjs?si=X4ZR_KiVnT53pixd

You cannot make critical decisions like this through Youtube.
It is utterly pointless.

Most of these videos are a form of advertorial.

I thought it would be helpful to get an overview of various models, but if you don't agree I umderstand why.

Sorry, I wasn't having a go at you.
More at the video premise (or more correctly the slightly click-baity title).

You're right- it is good to get an overview of the models, but you just can't tell audio quality via youtube.

duotone

No problem at all @octatonic ;

TheBigDipper

Thanks again for the input, everyone. It helped me move forwards. 

I've gone for an Audient ID24. It arrives sometime today. I prefer the form factor of a desktop box with the controls on top over the Focusrite with them on the front. This will be sitting on my desk.

TheBigDipper

The ID24 has arrived. I've installed it. Audio playback (of CDs, etc.) is much more musical than the MG10, so I'm happy on that front. Smaller on the desk, too, which is a bonus. I'll be doing some recording early next week, so fingers crossed... 

The MG10 is an acceptable live mixer for 2/3 voices and guitars, so I'll be keeping it for that just not using it as an audio interface.