Using a modeller through the PA vs through a real amp

allen

I usually use my Tonemaster Pro straight into the front of a valve amp to try to keep things simple.

Last night I went to rehearsal and none of the amps in the rehearsal room were working. I quickly improvised and added a deluxe reverb model to my general preset and plugged into the PA (mono only).

Wow. Sounds were much better/clearer. I could hear myself much better and (possibly) the tone was better.

I had always assumed that a real amp would sound better and would be simpler, but actually going into the PA was easier and sounded better.

You live and learn!

TheBigDipper

In my "go direct" adventures, I always preferred going through the PA. If you're all doing that (inc. drums) then you can generally get a single monitor mix that is usable, too. That never worked for me if the drummer was playing an acoustic kit, though. So that's a time for a real amp at the back of the stage. 

monquixote

Much as I hate to say it when I switched to using a modeller into the PA I got far more complements about having a good guitar tone than when I was using various fancy amps and pedals. 

Musicwolf

monquixote said:

Much as I hate to say it when I switched to using a modeller into the PA I got far more complements about having a good guitar tone than when I was using various fancy amps and pedals. 

Likewise, although my pedals weren't particularly fancy.

newi123

I`m still with a UA Lion into a FR12 for stage, and with a line but I to PA.

I`ve tried the Lion with the cab sim off into a class D power amp and guitar cab - tbh I prefer it with the cab sim through the FR12. 

I`m not ready for straight to PA and no stage volume - I still like an `amp` on stage.

I bought this rig as a light weight solution primarily - but the sound out FOH is the best, and certainly the most consistent, I`ve ever had.

flying_pie

At least night's rehearsal or keyboard told me he really liked the patches oi had programmed. I hadn't actually programmed any and it was just my Friedman IR-J into the PA with some reverb and occasional varying amounts of delay.

I have found that keeping the gain on the mixer low and having the level slider high does help. I also find that some of the modules in the mixer can be a bit erratic and often the solution to your sound being harsh on input 7 is to change to input 8.

Voxman

I've been using an MFX straight through the PA or FRFR powered speakers for years now. So much simpler, way more consistent tone, and the audience wouldn't know or care. I really do think it's becoming the norm now.

A few years old now, but here's a vid of Nita Straus talking about how she uses a Boss GT1000 live for smaller gigs (& her smaller gigs are probably bigger gigs for many of us!)

Moltisanti

Live I use an HX Stomp for my "amp" and have a pedalboard in front of it. I like having actual pedals with knobs for drives, wah, phaser and just use the HX Stomp at the end of the chain for delay, reverb and volume boost.

I love the simplicity of going direct to the PA, our drummer uses v drums so I don't need to compete with an acoustic kit on stage.

thomasw88

Voxman said:

I've been using an MFX straight through the PA or FRFR powered speakers for years now. So much simpler, way more consistent tone, and the audience wouldn't know or care. I really do think it's becoming the norm now.

A few years old now, but here's a vid of Nita Straus talking about how she uses a Boss GT1000 live for smaller gigs (& her smaller gigs are probably bigger gigs for many of us!)

Interesting video but by god the sound of the patches are awful. 

Voxman

thomasw88 said:

Voxman said:

I've been using an MFX straight through the PA or FRFR powered speakers for years now. So much simpler, way more consistent tone, and the audience wouldn't know or care. I really do think it's becoming the norm now.

A few years old now, but here's a vid of Nita Straus talking about how she uses a Boss GT1000 live for smaller gigs (& her smaller gigs are probably bigger gigs for many of us!)

Interesting video but by god the sound of the patches are awful. 

Don't forget that they're designed for live use at volume in a band mix, and these are made to her tastes & style of music. She doesn't seem to do too badly with them, and if she's good enough to be Alice Cooper's guitarist with access to top sound engineers, I'd say she probably knows a thing or two about crafting sounds for live use!    

Axe_meister

I have two rigs. 
a) Marshall Origin 20, with a bunch of pedals (may change the Origin as it's far too bright)
b) QC into a Laney FRFR

A rig is fun, but not actually that flexible and constant knob twiddling is required (unless I get duplicates of many pedals) then I'd need to either tap dance or get myself a pedal switcher. Great in the room sound

B rig is just plug and go (and a much smaller pedal board) and far more consistent.

PhilM

I ditched amps around 7 years ago and haven't looked back. In the current band, both myself and the other guitarist use a Kemper direct. For our own pub gigs, we use IEMs, and for festivals etc, we have our own small monitor (QSC CP8 for me, Laney FRFR 1x12 for him) to avoid having to rely too much on the sound engineer to be able to at least hear ourselves.

Sounds the same, night after night. No settings to faff with

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sRyUJ_vouQo

crunchman

I go direct but I did buy my own QSC powered speaker so I'm not at the mercy of sound engineers taking me out of the monitors.  Most modellers/profilers have stereo out. Set them up as dual mono so have your own out to your monitor and one to the PA 

bloodandtears

My Helix goes direct to PA, I use one IEM,  but I also have a small FRFR behind me for air movement and an on stage presence for feedback etc..

Danny1969

I have 3 main bands I play in but also do dep work. So I have various things I can use rather than using the same system with the same band constantly. For the most part though a simple combo amp like a Fender or Marshall and a small pedal board is such a simple solution it's not really worth thinking about anything else. It's small, cheap and sounds just like a real pedal board going into a real amp

Weigh can be a issue as you get older but wheels / 2 man lift etc can help there. I have mates in their 80's who carry Vox AC30's into the pub every month for Shadows club so I'm not gonna whine about the weight of a Hot Rod or similar. 

Modellers are great for theatre work, especially when you are using a split system. You can just plum everything into the splitter and set your own desk up with a fantastic stereo IEM mix for everyone. Straight off the bat you know the IEM's will be fine.    Then just give FOH the other split numbered like 

1 kick
2 Snare 
3 Rack T 1  ...... etc 

For festival work though combos are quicker because it's either the hired backline so there anyway or they just chuck a mic on your own amp and it's good to go. If the person using a modeller has a speaker then it's pretty much the same thing (and kinda pointless to me) ... if the person with the modeller has no speaker and depends entirely on wedge or IEM mix then that takes a little longer as there's no spread at all onstage from a speaker so every single member will need some fed into whatever they are using for monitoring.  The split system doesn't work as well at festivals as with bigger stages they tend to use sub snakes, meaning your snake for FOH will have to go to more than one location onstage. 

Lestratcaster

I've been playing with the thought of going back to 'real amps' after using the Kemper for 5 years. I do love it, however and its very easy to plug into anything, a PA, speaker cab, mixer, audio interface etc etc. 

But there's just something about how a tube amp responds to your playing. Digital is good and most people won't notice or care whether your overdrive sound is a JCM800 or 900 to be honest.

But I can't help but think if I got a small JCM900 combo and mic'd it up would it satisfy my pushing noise through speakers feel again.

If a venue has a shit PA system then your nice patch of that tight crunchy overdrive will sound crap.

I don't play live anymore but if I did I'd want a cab on the stage for a live stage feel.

Bennyboy-UK

PhilM said:

I ditched amps around 7 years ago and haven't looked back. In the current band, both myself and the other guitarist use a Kemper direct. For our own pub gigs, we use IEMs, and for festivals etc, we have our own small monitor (QSC CP8 for me, Laney FRFR 1x12 for him) to avoid having to rely too much on the sound engineer to be able to at least hear ourselves.

Sounds the same, night after night. No settings to faff with

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sRyUJ_vouQo

GREAT sound, what a fab band!! I loved it!

Axe_meister

Valve amp = Fun = Rock'n'Roll
Modeling = convenience, cost reduction when touring, keeps the sound guy happy, saves your back.

Funny how things have flipped. Multi-FX used to be mainly used at home, Amps for stage. Now it's the other way home. 

Axe_meister

Second hand Helix are about to drop in price once the new Helix Stadium gets released.