Recording set up advice

shaunm

Hi all,

I mess about recording at home at the moment using a focusrite 2i2 and a simple SM57 on my cabs or a Captor X and amp sims. 

I am wanting to improve my recording set up over the next few months. 

I would like to know if you guys incorporate the following into you home set ups and if so any advice.

•mic preamps
•external EQ 
•rack based compressor

I know I need to get a better interface and grab a couple of different microphones. 

I will only ever be recording guitars or bass so I don’t need anything to cover drums or vocals.

Thanks

Musicwolf

shaunm said:

I know I need to get a better interface

Why do you think that you need a better interface?

Unless you are talking about high end outboard i.e. in the thousands £, and the rest of your recording setup including monitoring and acoustic treatment are already up to scratch, then you're unlikely to see (hear) any benefits.

shaunm

@Musicwolf by outboard do you mean preamps and compressors? 

I wasn’t thinking of going nuts and spending £10,000’s. I have used a Focusrite ISA in a studio before as a preamp and I thought it sounded great. So I was thinking of getting one of those. 

After that I was going to look at compressors and EQ’s. 

Musicwolf

Yes.  Outboard is any sort of signal processor (pre-amp, compressor, EQ, Effect etc) which sits outside of your computer / DAW.

Before you drop any cash on a fancy box, what is your monitoring set up?  What monitors / headphones do you have and, most importantly, what sort of space do you have to work in?  Is the room acoustically treated?

The most important thing in a studio is being able to actually hear what you are doing.  If you do a mix using your current setup, then play it back on another system / different room, how does it sound?  If you are having trouble getting your mixes to translate it's because your current monitoring setup / room are colouring the sound.

Most DAWs come loaded with EQs and compressors capable of giving good results, it's really about learning how to use them.

digitalkettle

Yep, by outboard, he means any processing that's not happening in your computer.

I've had a small adventure down this path but, while I enjoyed the toys, I ultimately wasted my money. At the level I'm at (moderately competent home recordist publishing to Soundcloud where no-one listens to your stuff), I could never understand why I'd want to route audio to and from external hardware after I'd recorded it. So much capability 'in the box'.

It also took me a very short time to realise that I couldn't be fagged poking microphones at speakers. For me, time and money was better spent on 'direct' solutions. It's a never ending journey but, currently, I'm favouring a pedalboard built around a Tone King Imperial preamp or DI straight into a Neural DSP plugin. I even downgraded my UA Apollo to an Audient Evo 8 and didn't miss it.

With a more traditional approach, you'll do more engineering and less musicianing...which might be what you want...so take the above as my tuppen'orth.

n.b. there are some serious studio folks on here so I'm offering this to keep things balanced from the other end of the scale

octatonic

I produce, record and mix music in a studio that incorporates outboard.
It is an expansive way to do it but imho the sonic benefits are worth the expense IF you do it for a living or you are uncompromising.
For most people it isn't worth going down that road.
Plugins are great now and the ability to recall projects is worth more than the 5-10% sonic benefit in the right hands.

I worked in the box for more than a decade, had releases working this way.

If you want to improve your mixes then the best thing to spend your money on is a) training b) acoustic treatment, then things like better monitors, microphones and very much last would be outboard.

You could go for a top shelf mic preamp with EQ like a Neve 1073. I think that the best option ere are the ones made by BAE.
Get one with EQ.

shaunm

This is great information. Thank you all. 

Acoustic treatment is something I need to look at certainly. At the moment I have non. 

Monitors are another area that I need to invest in. Is there a supposed standard set for a home studio? 

Mic’s I certainly need to spend some time experimenting and getting to know different mics. 

Training - I would love to go on a course that could help me learn more about how to get the best out of Logic and the recording process. What I have learned so far is really due to trial and error and YouTube. 

andy_k

A matched pair of small diaphragm condensor mics goes a long way in a small studio setup, for recording acoustic instruments, or drums, and a decent large one is nice too.
Your interface limits you to 2 inputs, so a stereo pair is the most you can record at the moment, or a single mic and a DI, so more inputs would be useful, something like a Zoom R16 is pretty cheap, or something like a Tascam Model 12 is around £500, both serve as multi purpose units, multi inputs, stand alone recorders, mixers, control surfaces, so either one would be a nice expansion on your current setup.
Room treatment is a waste of time, unless you have a good room to start with, and a good set of reference headphones are much more useful than monitors ( IMO), as decent monitors are wasted in an untreated space, a set of Ilouds for around £200 is a good start in a home studio - versatile as Bluetooth speakers, but a decent start.
Outboard analogue equipment will just open up a black hole of revealing limitations in other areas, IO and PC spec, and is an expensive way of building up a rig, I would rather spend that money on some decent plugins such as Fabfilter, or an annual Slate bundle, if you can get the Slate bundle with all the SSL stuff as well, it is a no brainer for around £150 a year.
For absolutely no money, you could try out Reaper, to see what you are missing, but I understand if you are getting used to Logic, but Logic does lock you in to the Apple eco system-which may be a problem further down the road.
I use Reaper on both Mac and PC, and feel it is pretty future proof - essential if you hope to be doing this for a long time.
The principals of recording and mixing are the same, whatever platform or equipment you use, so it is good to not get locked into any form of equipment or software in general.

shaunm

Thank you. 

Would you advise any specific set of monitors? 

Regarding acoustic pads do you find they make a big difference in the room when recording a loud amp at a close distance? 

digitalkettle

shaunm said:

...

Regarding acoustic pads do you find they make a big difference in the room when recording a loud amp at a close distance?

I would think that's more about listening back through your monitors.

octatonic

shaunm said:

This is great information. Thank you all. 

Acoustic treatment is something I need to look at certainly. At the moment I have non. 

Monitors are another area that I need to invest in. Is there a supposed standard set for a home studio? 

Mic’s I certainly need to spend some time experimenting and getting to know different mics. 

Training - I would love to go on a course that could help me learn more about how to get the best out of Logic and the recording process. What I have learned so far is really due to trial and error and YouTube. 

There is no standard set for a home studio monitor.
It used to be that Yamaha NS10's were the standard for professionals (with a Bryston amplifier) but that is no longer the case.
NS10's do have advantages (mostly in the time domain) but sound quality is not one of them.

octatonic

digitalkettle said:

shaunm said:

...

Regarding acoustic pads do you find they make a big difference in the room when recording a loud amp at a close distance?

I would think that's more about listening back through your monitors.

You can also decouple your amp from whatever it is sitting on.

To the OP- don't worry about this so much at this stage.
There are a lot of more important things than the minimal amount of coupling and sound transference you get from your amp or monitors to whatever they are resting on.

Learning how to mic up singers, amplifiers and acoustic instruments is far, far more important.
Getting the room acoustics to be less boxy is more important.
Learning how to use your DAW is more important.
and so on.

shaunm

@octatonic & @digitalkettle Thank you.

Learning more regarding Logic Pro is certainly something I need to do. I have a rudimentary knowledge of what to do but that’s it. 

I generally am pretty happy with the sounds I am getting recording wise. Though I find I’m getting a little bit of white noise on occasion. 

Is there any advice regarding headphones. Are open back good for using to record with as well as the mix process? 

rze99

Get a used Focusrite platinum strip - pre amp compression EQ and tube emulator….all in one unit -  Cheap and excellent 

shaunm

@rze99 i will have a look at those. Thank you.

Given I am asking for advice I thought I’d share a video of the kind of results I’m currently getting. It’s not terrible but I am clearly a total novice when it comes to mixing. Perhaps because I was sat doing it with some cheapish monitors and not on headphones along with my lack of knowledge or experience when it comes to EQ’s or compression. I am currently using set presets. 

https://youtu.be/Ntvt9i2RCSo?si=euolzmCMyZfSZDhP

digitalkettle

shaunm said:

...

Is there any advice regarding headphones. Are open back good for using to record with as well as the mix process? 

I'm currently enjoying a pair of Beyerdynamic DT 700 PRO X...which are closed-back. Nice and comfy...I use them for everything (because they're the only pair I've got ).

Open-back would be okay for recording an amp but where you're closer to the mic or using a condenser, e.g. vocals or acoustic guitar, you might get some bleed.

shaunm

digitalkettle said:

shaunm said:

...

Is there any advice regarding headphones. Are open back good for using to record with as well as the mix process? 

I'm currently enjoying a pair of Beyerdynamic DT 700 PRO X...which are closed-back. Nice and comfy...I use them for everything (because they're the only pair I've got ).

Open-back would be okay for recording an amp but where you're closer to the mic or using a condenser, e.g. vocals or acoustic guitar, you might get some bleed.

@digitalkettle good advice. Due to space I will need closed I think.

Winny_Pooh

You might be looking for a shortcut to give you a reason to not "mess around", but if you're recording electric guitars then you won't get much improvement with spending £££ on interface/outboard. Add a ribbon or md421 as a 2nd cab mic and put bass into a good preamp like a REDDI or modeller, then this is at studio standard already, the rest is the PLAYER. 

Then if you want to (if you must) improve mixes; monitors, training and treatment.

shaunm

Winny_Pooh said:

You might be looking for a shortcut to give you a reason to not "mess around", but if you're recording electric guitars then you won't get much improvement with spending £££ on interface/outboard. Add a ribbon or md421 as a 2nd cab mic and put bass into a good preamp like a REDDI or modeller, then this is at studio standard already, the rest is the PLAYER. 

Then if you want to (if you must) improve mixes; monitors, training and treatment.

If I’m reliant on the player there’s a much bigger issue. 

You sure I can’t just throw money at the problem instead? Ha

digitalkettle

shaunm said:

Winny_Pooh said:

You might be looking for a shortcut to give you a reason to not "mess around", but if you're recording electric guitars then you won't get much improvement with spending £££ on interface/outboard. Add a ribbon or md421 as a 2nd cab mic and put bass into a good preamp like a REDDI or modeller, then this is at studio standard already, the rest is the PLAYER. 

Then if you want to (if you must) improve mixes; monitors, training and treatment.

If I’m reliant on the player there’s a much bigger issue. 

You sure I can’t just throw money at the problem instead? Ha

Even moar fuzz pedals!

shaunm

@digitalkettle i think that Hanami pedal is more than enough for me. I’ve just been sat playing it for an hour.