A potentially dumb question about reducing the resistance on a Strat trem arm

PLOP

Basically the title… 
I’ve got a Strat here that I want to reduce the resistance of the springs so it takes less force to push down. 

I’ve extended the screws as far out as they can go, and took out a spring so there’s only two there, but when tuned up, the bridge is basically flying off the body with the string tension. 

There must be a way to “soften” the trem arm? 

All the stuff I’m finding online is just about tightening the actual arm itself from flopping around. 

Cheers! 

elstoof

Screw the trem claw further into the body. Springs provide the resistance, the claw sets the balance point, like the preload on suspension

ICBM

At the end of the day it’s down to the laws of physics - the string tension has to be balanced by the spring tension. You can use fewer springs - two is usually the minimum unless you’re using extremely light strings - but then you need to stretch them further to achieve the same overall tension at rest. Fewer springs does mean less force required to move away from the rest position, which is what you want, but it can only be within a relatively small range.

One thing you might not be aware of is the role of the saddle height - this changes the ratio of the forces because the height of the strings above the pivot point is adjustable, but the height of the block below it isn’t. To make the trem feel softer, raise the saddles higher, and shim the neck if that makes the action too high. Even that only has a fairly limited effect though.

Barney

In all my strats I use 3 springs and have the trem floating but I adjusted the claw to what strings and height I wanted ...for me it was just messing with it and rail and error until I had it just how I liked it ...I also set it so the when I press the trem down as far as it will go it will give a in pitch note on a few of the strings ...a minor third below I think it is 

Funkfingers

I go by the Dan Erlewine 3/32" up at the back edge set up method. This provides a reasonable amount of upward and downward pitch variation.

One important detail in the Erlewine approach is attention to the countersunk knife edge holes on which the vibrato baseplate pivots. These need to be as sharp as is practicable.

On a more general level, I get a smoother vibrato feel from a Jazzmaster system with Staytrem modifications. This comes at the expense of downward bend range.

My preference for an easier to bend vibrato system is the old Kahler Pro cam design.*

* Runs for cover in anticipation of the slagging off that the very mention of this vibrato design will elicit. 

elkay

PLOP said:

I’ve extended the screws as far out as they can go

I presume you're referring to the tremolo claw screws, to which the springs are attached. If so, you're moving in the wrong direction. When you remove a spring, you should be tightening the screws, not loosening them. The reason the bridge is up in the air is because, with the screws so far out, the springs are too slack to pull down the bridge against the strings' tension. What you need to do is tighten the screws until the bridge plate is almost flush with the body, re-tune your guitar, then loosen the screws slightly to allow the back of the bridge plate it lift slightly, and then re-tune the guitar yet again. As others have said, it's a balancing process. Just keep loosening or tightening the screws until you have the bridge level where you want it. The important thing is that you need to re-tune each time you tighten or loosen the screws, otherwise you won't get the balance right.

BillDL

Is this a two-point trem bridge or a "vintage" style with 6 screws at the front edge of the bridge?

A 2-point trem is intended to be set so it's floating (i.e. counterbalanced by string tension against spring tension).  In general they work best when the springs are tensioned so that the bottom of the bridge plate is parallel with the top of the body and with enough clearance to allow some upward pull on the arm before the rear edge of the plate touches the body (usually about 3/32" or 2.5mm).  This is achieved by adjusting the height of the fulcrum posts (detune first) and adjusting the spring tension with the claw in the spring cavity.

The 6-screw trem can be set flat onto the body so only downward movement on the arm is possible or floating so you also have upward pull.  They generally work best when the 6 screws at the front are screwed in far enough (and equally) to keep the front of the bridge plate almost touching the body and the bridge plate angled up towards the rear with a lot more clearance over the body.  Funkfingers mentioned that Dan Erlewine suggests a gap of 3/32" (about 2.5mm) between the underside of the bridge plate right at the back and the top of the body. Some people use 1/8" (i.e.4/32" or about 3.2mm).  It depends how much up-pull you want, but it shouldn't be a lot more than that.  The underside of the front end of the bridge plate has a curve.  That facilitates the rocking motion of the rear edges of the 6 holes with the smooth shanks of the screws.  You don't want the screws to be in so far that they are forcing the curved part of the bridge plate down onto the body surface and rolling hard against it, and you don't want the underside of the screw heads to be too far out so that the bridge plate can slide up and down on the smooth shanks of the screws.

If you pull the trem arm up so that the bridge is flat against the body, then tighten the 6 screws in until they are JUST touching the top of the bridge, and then back them out so that there is around 1mm to 1.5mm clearance between the underside of the screw heads and the top of the bridge, this is usually just about right.

It can help to place something about 1/8" thick under the back end of the bridge and tighten in the spring claw until the spring tension is pinning it under the bridge loosely.  Tune to pitch.  If the object slides out, tighten the trem claw a little bit more to hold it and retune.  If you have had to crank the trem claw almost all the way in up against the front of the cavity with 2 springs to just grip your 1/8" thick spacer under the back of the bridge under normal string tension, then you may have to screw it back out a bit and add a 3rd spring.  If the screws are a considerable distance out with 3 springs there may not be enough screw thread into the wood and you may have to remove the middle string and screw in the trem claw a bit.  You risk chewing up the screw heads if they have to be screwed in almost completely.

Once you have it just preventing your spacer from sliding out, unscrew the trem claw a tiny amount and retune.  Repeat until the spacer slides out and the bridge is left floating at normal string tension with the back end 1/8" off the body.  That should be perfect for most people but can still be taken down or up a tiny bit using the trem claw.  Once done you can then check and adjust your action and intonation.

Winny_Pooh

A longer trem arm will do that job. 

prowla

Three springs seems to be the de-facto standard.

Maybe going to the gym would help?

In seriousness, reducing the tension too much could make it impossible to play a note in tune.

eg. Palm muting would shift the bridge.

Leo Fender got it about right.

jaymenon

Winny_Pooh said:

A longer trem arm will do that job. 

Yes - or one that has a longer vertical section (i.e. the bend occurs later)

Sporky

Lighter string gauge? 

maharg101

9s with two springs here. As has been mentioned before, it's a bit more "conversational" with two.. you want the springs to be stretched out a little when at rest. If the coils are touching each other at rest, then that may lead to issues with return to pitch.

digitalkettle

Winny_Pooh said:

A longer trem arm will do that job. 

Like when you use a scaffold pole to 'assist' a wheel brace.

PLOP

Update in case anyone ever find this thread via a search with exactly the thing I described;

I've got the arm to be about as easy to push down as I'd like, maybe I'd do a bit softer if I can. 

I ended up using two springs in diagonal formation (position 2 and 4 on the claw and 1 and 5 on the block), and screwing the claw right down to the wood, and it softened the resistance greatly. I can now use it to get that "cassette tape walkman running out of batteries" effect that I was looking for!

It also turns out, the previous owner of this strat has put in one of the shorter arms that Dave Gilmour uses. I don't know how noticeably shorter this is because I've never played strats with trem arms before, but I'll probably get a standard one soon to try out. 

fretmeister

Reading this thread I’m tempted to try 2 springs on my strat.

I don’t think I’ve ever had fewer than 3, and it needs restringing anyway.
I’ve only just re floated the bridge, up to last week it was decked and impossible to move. I had it like that for a good 10 years.

PLOP

I suspect the feeling im kind of looking for is the soft and very subtle effect I would assume a jazzmaster usually does. I’m only guessing they’re very easy to push on because of the length of the arm? 

Grangousier

I recently tested a guitar that Feline are putting together for me, that has a Les Trem on with a similar feel, which I described at the time as "squidgy". Which is good, IMO. Anyway, the way it and the JM trem work are mechanically different from a strat. The advice up above is good for the latter.

digitalkettle

PLOP said:

...

It also turns out, the previous owner of this strat has put in one of the shorter arms that Dave Gilmour uses. I don't know how noticeably shorter this is because I've never played strats with trem arms before, but I'll probably get a standard one soon to try out. 

Callaham offer three different arm lengths: https://www.callahamguitars.com/strat_trem_arms_catalog.htm

• 6" - standard
• 5 1/4" - '64'
• 4 1/8" - Gilmour

fretmeister

I had a power cut this morning so I took the time to swap to 2 springs on my strat.
As I was also dropping from 9-46 to 9-42 there was also a little bit of a general set up change

I think I like it. I will end up putting a little bit of foam in the cavity to stop the springs ringing though as that does my head in.

digitalkettle

fretmeister said:

...
I think I like it. I will end up putting a little bit of foam in the cavity to stop the springs ringing though as that does my head in.

Try bunging either end of the springs with some foam: far less noticeable.

fretmeister

I'll give it a try!
Thank you.