Jagstang due a service

suspiciousminds

I’ve had my Fender Jagstang since 1996 and i had the Vibrato locked down because it just wouldnt stay in tune.
Cleaning the fretboard today i can see theres quite a bit of wear on the first 3 frets although the rest are fine.
Am i right in thinking that, as the rest of the frets are ok i can get just the worn ones done or is it normal to do the lot?
Also,whilst i’m getting the frets looked at, is it likely that i could get the trem setup to actually stay in tune?
Do i need to upgrade the bridge/saddles and if so what options are available? I’m guessing its the same as used on Mustangs?

flying_pie

Everything should be checked and fixed with a setup. Even if it only seems that three frets need attended all of them would be checked (and I expect more than three will need sorted). The ones that need work will be worked on. Same with things you've not mentioned like the nut and pickup height/orientation.

If you take it go a good tech they'll give you an opinion on what needs done and what doesn't as far as the setup and replacing any parts. More often than not a setup well result in things you thought you needed to replace working as intended, but the tech still let you know if something needs replaced

paulnb57

You would have to them all or there would be lower frets at the nut end

No experience regarding the bridge..

suspiciousminds

flying_pie said:

Everything should be checked and fixed with a setup. Even if it only seems that three frets need attended all of them would be checked (and I expect more than three will need sorted). The ones that need work will be worked on. Same with things you've not mentioned like the nut and pickup height/orientation.

If you take it go a good tech they'll give you an opinion on what needs done and what doesn't as far as the setup and replacing any parts. More often than not a setup well result in things you thought you needed to replace working as intended, but the tech still let you know if something needs replaced

Thx for the advice, yes i did think about the nut tbh

suspiciousminds

paulnb57 said:

You would have to them all or there would be lower frets at the nut end

No experience regarding the bridge..

Ahh right, i thought i might get away with just those worn ones replacing

SteveRobinson

suspiciousminds said:

paulnb57 said:

You would have to them all or there would be lower frets at the nut end

No experience regarding the bridge..

Ahh right, i thought i might get away with just those worn ones replacing

You could replace them or dress them all. More metal would be removed from the worn frets and not very much from the upper ones so that the tops would be all level.

flying_pie

suspiciousminds said:

paulnb57 said:

You would have to them all or there would be lower frets at the nut end

No experience regarding the bridge..

Ahh right, i thought i might get away with just those worn ones replacing

If the first three aren't too worn they might just need reshaped and then the rest of the frets dressed so that they're all the correct height. Again, you can discuss this with the tech

WezV

Normally you can get at least one good dress out of heavily worn frets before they need replacing... but hard to know without seeing  just how worn they are.  

There are a few things that can be done to help the bridge perform as best as possible, plus upgrade options if that still isn't enough.  If its not really been touched since you've owned it I guarantee a lot can be done with the stock parts.

suspiciousminds

WezV said:

Normally you can get at least one good dress out of heavily worn frets before they need replacing... but hard to know without seeing  just how worn they are.  

There are a few things that can be done to help the bridge perform as best as possible, plus upgrade options if that still isn't enough.  If its not really been touched since you've owned it I guarantee a lot can be done with the stock parts.

I’ll try post a pic in the light in the morning.
It’s had proper setups, switches changed as they caused issues twice (poss because of me catching them strumming) and as i say the humbucker rewound by bloodstone and it sounds great now, much better than before and i always felt it was weak - i was going to replace the neck pickup but i’m leaving it stock as it now seems to compliment the bridge pickup since the rewind.It really sounds great now with distortion.
i’ve tried unlocking the vibrato previously but had tuning issues after, so most of its life its been locked down but i would like to use it if its stable.
I’m not sure what options are available for bridges or indeed if there’s anything to gain from doing it but i dont want to do any tunomatic conversion.

ICBM

What string gauge are you using? I’ve usually found 11s to be the lower limit for a Mustang trem (in standard tuning), and even then you have to set it to just about touching the plate.

The whole thing just doesn’t have a high enough ratio of return force to really pull it back into tune after an arm movement, given the short distance and high break angle to the bridge - the strings tend to stick there, even with the bridge able to rock, because they don’t all move by exactly the same amount. Not one of Leo Fender’s best designs. (Contrary to popular belief the scale length is not the problem, because Jaguars stay in tune very well.)

A tune-o-matic will just make it worse. A roller bridge might help, especially if it can also rock (I’m sure there must be a pun there ) - that should allow the individual strings to settle back better. Locking machine heads might also help, if you can prevent snagging at the nut - I would use staggered posts with the lowest one for the G string, which is usually the most problematic to get enough break angle with. Make sure the nut and string tree are properly smooth and lubed.

Unless the frets are really worn it’s probably possible to dress them - you can do a tapered dress, just taking off the minimum to remove the lowest dent at the nut end, and progressively less as you go up the neck - as long as the tops are in a straight line, this leaves the frets taller where you need them for bending. If that’s not possible because they’re really too bad, you can certainly have just the first few replaced, as long as it’s with the same gauge of wire. You still need to dress them to the same height as the others, but it won’t be as big a job.

MartinBush

I used to have a Jagstang and I am sure all will agree that they are excellent guitars...

I had an issue with tuning and, as I used to whack the strings quite hard when I played, I ended up getting locking tuners and the trem blocked. I think the guitar tech offered me locking tuners just to keep me quiet as I'd got it into my head that the tuners were at fault.

ICBM

MartinBush said:

I used to have a Jagstang and I am sure all will agree that they are excellent guitars...

I actually think they’re terrible, but they can be made sort-of OK with a lot of work. 

That’s not to put down anyone else’s choice!

(I may have missed a joke there .)

MartinBush

I was referencing the reaction when I posted about my own a few years back. 

All water under the bridge now

suspiciousminds

ICBM said:

What string gauge are you using? I’ve usually found 11s to be the lower limit for a Mustang trem (in standard tuning), and even then you have to set it to just about touching the plate.

The whole thing just doesn’t have a high enough ratio of return force to really pull it back into tune after an arm movement, given the short distance and high break angle to the bridge - the strings tend to stick there, even with the bridge able to rock, because they don’t all move by exactly the same amount. Not one of Leo Fender’s best designs. (Contrary to popular belief the scale length is not the problem, because Jaguars stay in tune very well.)

A tune-o-matic will just make it worse. A roller bridge might help, especially if it can also rock (I’m sure there must be a pun there ) - that should allow the individual strings to settle back better. Locking machine heads might also help, if you can prevent snagging at the nut - I would use staggered posts with the lowest one for the G string, which is usually the most problematic to get enough break angle with. Make sure the nut and string tree are properly smooth and lubed.

Unless the frets are really worn it’s probably possible to dress them - you can do a tapered dress, just taking off the minimum to remove the lowest dent at the nut end, and progressively less as you go up the neck - as long as the tops are in a straight line, this leaves the frets taller where you need them for bending. If that’s not possible because they’re really too bad, you can certainly have just the first few replaced, as long as it’s with the same gauge of wire. You still need to dress them to the same height as the others, but it won’t be as big a job.

Hmm, thx @ICBM - it’s got 9’s on it, tbh i’ve tried 11’s before, ernie ball power slinkys, but i didnt like them.
I think i’ll leave it locked down then tbh.
They are “marmite” guitars tbh but i love it, and i would really be gutted if i had to get rid of it, and its nothing to do with liking Nirvana/Cobain etc - when i saw the Review in Total Guitar when it was released i fell in love with it.
Here’s a pic of the first 3 frets, looks like the 2nd is worse but they are more worn than it shows in the pics.
https://imgur.com/a/m91h39b

suspiciousminds

MartinBush said:

I used to have a Jagstang and I am sure all will agree that they are excellent guitars...

I had an issue with tuning and, as I used to whack the strings quite hard when I played, I ended up getting locking tuners and the trem blocked. I think the guitar tech offered me locking tuners just to keep me quiet as I'd got it into my head that the tuners were at fault.

Actually, the tuning was poor on mine too until i had it properly setup and the vibrato locked down - it’s been pretty solid ever since.

ICBM

suspiciousminds said:

Here’s a pic of the first 3 frets, looks like the 2nd is worse but they are more worn than it shows in the pics.

That's not even slightly bad, even if it looks a bit worse in person - although fret wear always looks worse than it actually is. Easily within what you can remove with a fret dress.

suspiciousminds

ICBM said:

suspiciousminds said:

Here’s a pic of the first 3 frets, looks like the 2nd is worse but they are more worn than it shows in the pics.

That's not even slightly bad, even if it looks a bit worse in person - although fret wear always looks worse than it actually is. Easily within what you can remove with a fret dress.

Super, i’ll get that sorted then!!

SPECTRUM001

About seven years ago I drove 50 miles to buy an American Standard tele. Advertised on Gumtree as immaculate.

Lo and behold it had loads of fret wear (way worse than the photo above). I thought it definitely needed a refret. The owner (who was leaving the country back to the States) was a good guy, although a bit embarrassed, so reduced £75 off the price (down to £650 - not too bad at all)

Went off to Denmark St for the work and was told a fret dress would suffice. Honestly, when I got it back, the frets looked like new, and still as high as a regular medium jumbo - I was both perplexed and amazed.

Take it to a decent tech, and hopefully you’ll be pleasantly surprised !

WezV

yeah, at that level of wear you could probably get 3 more fret dresses out of them before considering a re-fret.  You likely wouldn't even notice the slight difference in fret height after the first one

suspiciousminds

Thanks for the advice chaps, going to get it booked in!