Bass guitar playing advice.

suspiciousminds

I’m trying to start learning how to play my Bronco bass again - i bought it a few months ago, did some mods - toltec pickup, new wiring and jazz bass type black knobs had it set up but since then i havent really done much on it.
I feel that he action may be a bit high (especially compared to how my guitars are set up), so what do you bass players suggest is the best action?
Should it be pretty low?
Also, when playing is it better to use a plectrum or thumb/fingers etc.
My hand seems to rest on the bridge as there isnt a thumb rest.
Its been setup on roundwounds, but what difference would flatwounds make.
Any advice is much appreciated.

diap

Action is personal preference, just as with guitar. A higher action makes it slightly harder to fret each note, but it needs to be high enough to allow the string to vibrate freely. The rest of the set-up obviously effects this. It has to be higher than a guitar purely because of the length of the strings.

Fingers or pick again is a preference issue. I play with both. Pick for punk and heavier rock. Fingers for blues, jazz and dad rock.

You can buy or make a thumb rest if you want one, or use the pick-up on a Bronco. Some would advise a floating thumb but I like a thumb rest when playing with fingers.

Flatwounds 'deaden' the sound and give the bass more of a thump, closer to the sound of an upright bass. they are also a lot more comfortable under the fingers and last longer as you don't loose the 'zing' of new roundwounds.

Playing bass is a laugh. Keep it up and just try to have fun, and do it any way you like.

fretmeister

Action height seems to be a big argument at the moment even between professionals with some saying - no point in making it hard so as low as you can, to others saying, nice and high so it rings "better" irrespective of comfort.

Ignore all of them. Find what works for you.

It won't be the same on every bass either. My sandberg tt4 has the lowest action I've ever seen on a bass. My P has quite a high action. Whatever suits the individual bass and your taste is absolutely fine.

Same as plectrum / fingers / slap. Whatever you like. The weird snobbery about plectrum use needs to get in the bin. Carol Kaye used a plectrum all the time and she's a legend. Whatever works for the bass, the strings, the sound, and for you personally is right.

John Deacon (Queen) used to record a lot with fingers, but then use a pick live. Other people do it the other way round. There is no better.

Sometimes people will say that X song used a pick and it sounds "wrong" without it. Nonsense. It sounds different but that doesn't mean wrong.

I've seen Tom Arya from Slayer drop his pick and just carry on with fingers without difficulty. I've seen Frank Bello use a pick for 1 section of a song only because he liked that more.

Fingers / pick / slap is all part of the same toolbox and the bassists that get the most work can do them all.

Flatwounds vary more in tone than rounds. Some flats are nearly as bright as rounds. Others are the complete opposite, deep, thick, zero top end. You'll have to try some to see what you like - basschat usually has some people selling used strings so you can try them cheaper than new ones.

Some people like a thumb rest. Others use the edge of the fretboard or the pickup. Some float above the strings or use the lowest string not being played as a rest. Again - there is no better. Whatever is most comfy.

The only things that are important are whether you like the sound you have, how efficiently you are playing, and whether you are locked into the song rhythm.

MartinB

There is a lot of variance in the action height people prefer, but if you're new to the instrument then having some numbers as a sanity check is not a terrible idea. When I started playing in my teens, I saw people talk about how high action was good for tone and  I soldiered on with a bass that was quite hard to play, and it turned out their "high action" was about half of where my bass was. If it's between 2 and 3mm between the bottom of the strings and top of the 12th fret, that's fairly normal. You can go lower if you have a light touch, good fret job and neck relief, and a few people go higher, but there's not much to be gained by going a lot higher. 

suspiciousminds

Thanks for the advice chaps, really appreciated.
I think i might fit a thumb rest just to see whether i feel more comfortable with that than resting my hand on the bridge - it’ll involve drilling through the scratchplate into the body but thats ok.
Action wise, i think i would like it lower - i’m finding that it sounds quite nice and smooth playing nearer the nut but as soon as i get past the 5th fret it starts to sound a bit “clattery” if that makes sense but i’m not sure if that is down to my technique or lack of ability.
I’m pretty sure it was setup with rotosound 66? shortscale roundwounds on it.
The other thing i notice is, which i guess is my poor technique is the amount of noise or squeak i get when i’m playing - would flatwounds help eliminate that or is it likely my playing?

fretmeister

Rounds on a bass do make more noise because the wrap wire is much bigger than on a guitar.
That being said, it's not very noticeable when the drums are going so don't worry about that too much unless it's really doing your head in.

Flats would get rid of most of that - but flats do vary. Some have little gaps between the flat wrap wire and some are so close that without a magnifying glass they just look like solid metal.

Flats vary in sound far more than people think.

La Bella Deep Talking Flats (760 model number)  have the old Motown / Stax tone. James Jamerson / Duck Dunn and so on, but still versatile with a bit of drive. I love them. La Bella also have a Low Tension Flat option that still sounds much like the DTF but with more flexibility. Bass Direct are usually the cheapest for La Bella

Dunlops have a little more top and and mids than the La Bella but are hellishly expensive. They doubled in price a few years ago so I stopped using them.

Ernie Ball Group Flats have a very versatile and even tone. They last a long time and still sound great when dulled down after years of playing. Joe Dart's string of choice. For some recording duties I have a set of these that I slathered with E45 cream to deaden them as much as possible and they sound glorious. Really fat! The EB Group flats come in a variety of gauges for regular and short scale and are a good introduction to flats as they will go deep enough with the tone down, and bright enough for some plectrum metal with the tone up. Reasonably priced too. Amazon is cheapest almost always. 

Thomastik Ti Flats are very flexible (not to everybody's taste) and have a mid forward sound designed to be as close to a double bass as possible. I love them. Amazon often the cheapest.

Ernie Ball Cobalt Flats and La Bella Super Polished Flats - the brightest and most roundwound tone available for flats. I really did not like the EB Cobalts. They felt weird. I've not tried the Super Polished La Bella.

Flats tend to be expensive but they will last years and if looked after properly even decades so a cost per year view is actually cheaper than rounds. 

Tension is important: many flats are much higher tension than the same gauge rounds. For example, if you like the tension of a traditional set of 45-105 like D'addario or Ernie ball rounds then there's a good chance that the same gauge in La Bella DTF will feel very high tension and you might need a lighter gauge.

The opposite is true of the Thomastiks - they are more flexible than any other steel core string (Dogal and Galli make some synthetic core strings that you can tie in knots without damaging them. But you'll need a second mortgage to buy Dogals). Thomastiks will need quite a bit of a set up change particularly if you play hard as they'll be clattering all over the fretboard. But a higher action on them won't hurt as they are so flexible it really doesn't get any harder to fret the note. 

Fender Flatwounds are actually very nice but the gauges in a packet are stupid. Tension is too high on some strings and far too low on others, and finding individual strings to make a set is a nightmare. It's a real shame as I'd use them a lot more often if I didn't have to basically buy 2 sets to make 1 good one.

Rotosound Monel flats are probably the highest tension ever. It's like putting undersea cables on a bass. Sound great but I found them really fatiguing to use. I have no idea how Steve Harris does it.

Have a look on basschat - there's usually someone selling some used flatwounds. Just check to make sure that they will fit your bass.

Machine Heads

If your Bronco has modern small tuners then you'll need shortscale flatwounds. Flats do not tolerate being bent round a small tuner and they will snap.

If you have large old fashioned posts like a P bass then most flats will tolerate that because the bend angle is a lot more gentle.

La Bella, Dunlop, Thomastik, Ernie Ball all do shortscale versions of their flatwounds. No doubt there are others but I haven't tried them.

Smoother Rounds

Elixir coated strings are smoother with lower finger noise.

Stay away from Rotosounds supposed smoother rounds - they are shit. Actually more finger noise than just about everybody else's normal rounds.

Apparently the La Bella Super Polished Ian Martin Allison signature set is very roundwound in flavour but I haven't tried them yet.

Then there's Pressurewounds / Groundwounds and so on where the roundwound string is either compressed under pressure to smooth out the wrap wire ridges or ground or polished off a bit. GHS Pressurewounds is the only one I've tried - quite nice but also not the easiest to get hold of. 

Blueingreen

One thing I’d say is that when I switched from guitar to bass I decided I wanted to do it “properly” and put in a lot of hours trying to play Jaco stuff etc to get my right hand fingers up to speed. With benefit of hindsight I regard this as an almost complete waste of time. It would have been a lot easier to adapt my pick technique on guitar for bass, and I could have spent the time saved far more usefully. Now that I’m back playing guitar I use a pick on the rare occasions when I do pick up a bass, usually for recording, and I actually prefer the sound.

pintspiller

@Blueingreen The Ox from The Who played with plectrum and fingers. When it looked like the band may break up under the debt of their destructive years he made a conscious effort to play with plectrum for all or most of Tommy. He does not over-play at all and he sounds great.

suspiciousminds

fretmeister said:

Rounds on a bass do make more noise because the wrap wire is much bigger than on a guitar.
That being said, it's not very noticeable when the drums are going so don't worry about that too much unless it's really doing your head in.

Flats would get rid of most of that - but flats do vary. Some have little gaps between the flat wrap wire and some are so close that without a magnifying glass they just look like solid metal.

Flats vary in sound far more than people think.

La Bella Deep Talking Flats (760 model number)  have the old Motown / Stax tone. James Jamerson / Duck Dunn and so on, but still versatile with a bit of drive. I love them. La Bella also have a Low Tension Flat option that still sounds much like the DTF but with more flexibility. Bass Direct are usually the cheapest for La Bella

Dunlops have a little more top and and mids than the La Bella but are hellishly expensive. They doubled in price a few years ago so I stopped using them.

Ernie Ball Group Flats have a very versatile and even tone. They last a long time and still sound great when dulled down after years of playing. Joe Dart's string of choice. For some recording duties I have a set of these that I slathered with E45 cream to deaden them as much as possible and they sound glorious. Really fat! The EB Group flats come in a variety of gauges for regular and short scale and are a good introduction to flats as they will go deep enough with the tone down, and bright enough for some plectrum metal with the tone up. Reasonably priced too. Amazon is cheapest almost always. 

Thomastik Ti Flats are very flexible (not to everybody's taste) and have a mid forward sound designed to be as close to a double bass as possible. I love them. Amazon often the cheapest.

Ernie Ball Cobalt Flats and La Bella Super Polished Flats - the brightest and most roundwound tone available for flats. I really did not like the EB Cobalts. They felt weird. I've not tried the Super Polished La Bella.

Flats tend to be expensive but they will last years and if looked after properly even decades so a cost per year view is actually cheaper than rounds. 

Tension is important: many flats are much higher tension than the same gauge rounds. For example, if you like the tension of a traditional set of 45-105 like D'addario or Ernie ball rounds then there's a good chance that the same gauge in La Bella DTF will feel very high tension and you might need a lighter gauge.

The opposite is true of the Thomastiks - they are more flexible than any other steel core string (Dogal and Galli make some synthetic core strings that you can tie in knots without damaging them. But you'll need a second mortgage to buy Dogals). Thomastiks will need quite a bit of a set up change particularly if you play hard as they'll be clattering all over the fretboard. But a higher action on them won't hurt as they are so flexible it really doesn't get any harder to fret the note. 

Fender Flatwounds are actually very nice but the gauges in a packet are stupid. Tension is too high on some strings and far too low on others, and finding individual strings to make a set is a nightmare. It's a real shame as I'd use them a lot more often if I didn't have to basically buy 2 sets to make 1 good one.

Rotosound Monel flats are probably the highest tension ever. It's like putting undersea cables on a bass. Sound great but I found them really fatiguing to use. I have no idea how Steve Harris does it.

Have a look on basschat - there's usually someone selling some used flatwounds. Just check to make sure that they will fit your bass.

Machine Heads

If your Bronco has modern small tuners then you'll need shortscale flatwounds. Flats do not tolerate being bent round a small tuner and they will snap.

If you have large old fashioned posts like a P bass then most flats will tolerate that because the bend angle is a lot more gentle.

La Bella, Dunlop, Thomastik, Ernie Ball all do shortscale versions of their flatwounds. No doubt there are others but I haven't tried them.

Smoother Rounds

Elixir coated strings are smoother with lower finger noise.

Stay away from Rotosounds supposed smoother rounds - they are shit. Actually more finger noise than just about everybody else's normal rounds.

Apparently the La Bella Super Polished Ian Martin Allison signature set is very roundwound in flavour but I haven't tried them yet.

Then there's Pressurewounds / Groundwounds and so on where the roundwound string is either compressed under pressure to smooth out the wrap wire ridges or ground or polished off a bit. GHS Pressurewounds is the only one I've tried - quite nice but also not the easiest to get hold of. 

@fretmeister , thankyou so much for the info!! Very, very much appreciated, 
Actually, from what you have wrote, i’m sure i had rotosound rounds fitted when i had it set up, literally because they were the only set in stock when i bought the bass so that could account for the extra noise which is getting on my nerves because its making me question if its my playing.
I’m definately going to try flats now based on what you say.
I’m going to fit a thumb rest too just to see if i find that more comfortable than resting my hand the bridge but looking at the fender website there are mustangs with thumb rests either above the E string or below the G - i’m guessing it would be better above the low E? 

fretmeister

The thumb rest used to be called a "Tug Bar" and was mounted below the G. Leo Fender basically expected players to hook their fingers on the Tug Bar and pluck with the thumb.

Most players didn't do that and some of them moved the offending item to above the E. Some just removed it.

You can get thumb rests that don't need holes drilling into the bass

Zero - Mod MODELS

The P bass one should work as it would be mounted on one of your existing scratchplate screws - if you think that would be in the right place.

Plucking position makes a big difference to the tone. Closer to the neck is warmer and less cutting. The opposite is true closer to the bridge.

If you mount it with some double sided tape and play really gently so you don't knock it off then you can experiment a bit with placement.

Personally - for a Bronco (and a P bass) I'd want it to be in a position that made my fingers be naturally plucking slightly towards the bridge compared to the pickup location, but whatever works for you is right.

No rules against putting 2 on if you want - it's your bass!

UnclePsychosis

At the risk of completely contradicting Fretmeister, I think you should forget about strings and thumb rests until you have more experience.

Rather than spend £30-50+ on a set of flatwounds that you might not even like, spend £30-50 on one or two lessons with a bass teacher and get them to talk you through the basics of right hand technique. 

Or, spend zero money and watch some YouTube videos on right hand technique. 

As for setup, entirely personal but it's exactly the same principle as a guitar, so if you think the action is too high then lower it exactly as you would on a guitar. The Fender website has recommended action heights for their (bass) guitars so you can sanity check against what they say. 

ICBM

I rest my thumb on the E string when I’m not playing it. I can’t actually think what I do when I am playing it! I’d need to pick up a bass and then I could tell you…

But I don’t like thumb rests. I would strongly advise trying to get used to playing without one, in whatever way works for you - because sooner or later you’ll need to play a bass that doesn’t have one. A lot of bassists use the edge of the pickup, which is fine as almost all electric basses have those - with a tiny number of exceptions you’re unlikely to come across.

fretmeister

I don't like thumb rests either.

I use the edge of the pickup.

But sometimes you just don't know whether you like a thing before trying it.

CaseOfAce

Learn fingerstyle.
It's really not that difficult. There's 2 basic rules when doing it - and once you've got that going you're off to the races.
Took me 2 months - not easy at first - but it's paid dividends for me after persevering. It's a really nice sound and feel. Sure I'll use a pick if I'm playing Should I Stay etc.. if the song calls for it but otherwise...

Tug bars - the one below the strings was put there by Leo cos he thought players would play with just their thumb (with the fingers pulling on the bar). This way you get a double bass type mellow sound. Google Brian Wilson bass and you'll see him playing it in the way Leo intended. 

I personally rest my thumb on the top of my pickup on my Precision. If I do move down to play higher strings the thumbs comes to rest on the bottom E or A string - and back up again when playing lower notes. Technique. As a local pro told me - bass is as much about muting strings as it is playing them. 

I don't get too caught up with action - it's average on my squier jazz - (way higher than my electrics!!) but having played more expensive stuff in shops... it's more or less the same - maybe could be a tad lower. Sure - I'm not gonna be double thumbing Wooten style on it anytime soon but for my purposes I can't be bothered to change it.

fretmeister

UnclePsychosis said:

At the risk of completely contradicting Fretmeister, I think you should forget about strings and thumb rests until you have more experience.

Rather than spend £30-50+ on a set of flatwounds that you might not even like, spend £30-50 on one or two lessons with a bass teacher and get them to talk you through the basics of right hand technique. 

Or, spend zero money and watch some YouTube videos on right hand technique. 

As for setup, entirely personal but it's exactly the same principle as a guitar, so if you think the action is too high then lower it exactly as you would on a guitar. The Fender website has recommended action heights for their (bass) guitars so you can sanity check against what they say. 

No drama - I'm often wrong about many things according to my wife, and everything according to my children.

(Can still get a used set of flats on basschat for less than the cost of new rounds though!).

GuyR

I would have a professional set up with new medium gauge strings and have it set up with a low action, or simply lower the action yourself until you find it comfortable. 

You would reasonably expect the person who previously set up the bass to have asked you how you wanted it set up, so I’d be disappointed to have a bass I had to fight against.

A lower action will give you the easiest playing experience and the least impediment to becoming proficient in the short term.
If you find you are the kind of player who likes to dig in and the low action restricts the bass from ringing out, you can raise the saddles a half turn at a time until it doesn’t.
In my opinion, when you start out, there is no point in making the process more difficult than necessary and you might feel more like persevering with a well set up bass.
Re the string choice, @fretmeister has it covered. Rotosound aren’t the best in my opinion. They go dull and dead quickly, or did when I last tried a set.
There are loads of great options. I use DR Hi-beams as I like a bright sound, they last better than any other rounds I have tried and sound different but still very good as they age. Experiment and make your own judgement.
A set up at somewhere like bass gallery or Feline, taking their advice on strings and action based on your preferences and level of experience, might in my opinion make your learning process easier and more enjoyable.