Helix espression pedal advice needed

nickp

Hi - I must be a divot coz I can't seem to get my expression pedals to play as I want them.

I have an external expression pedal.  What I want is

Wah pedal - on the helix onboard expression pedal.  Turned off heel down.  Plus to tighten up the range of the sweep to remove some of the highs (this little bit I think I've figured out).  I can't seem to get the fooker to turn off after the first time, and my expression pedal doesn't seem to want to live at 0%....kind of sits at 5-6%.

External volume pedal in EXP3.   I would like that to run from 50%-100% volume or similar on logarithmic.  Always engaged.  Same across all patches etc.  What I seem to get at best is it going from 100% toe dow, to abouit 50% in the middle of the travel, and then it goes back up to 100%.  

How hard can it be FFS?

help please.  I've watched some you tube videos but kneeling on the floor with the unit not playing ball, it's not going well

not helped at rehearsal last night as I buggered up my patches and overwrote my main patch with some sort of work in progress patch, so not a happy bunny.   I've learned that lesson and will store a copy on a USB to instantly restore if necessary

thank you clever Fretboard people

Sporky

The external expression pedals seem to work best on a TS connection instead of TRS. Maybe try a mono oead and see if that resolves that bit. 

fretmeister

Sporky said:

The external expression pedals seem to work best on a TS connection instead of TRS. Maybe try a mono oead and see if that resolves that bit. 

My Helix dedicated pedal has separate jacks on purpose. Both TS. One for the treadle and the other for a toe switch.

I have noticed that if I've used the wrong cable in a pinch it just doesn't work properly.

Sporky

My Source Audio Reflex had to be set to TS mode for the Helux. 

TheBigDipper

Here's a very long explanation from the head of Mission Engineering to explain how this all works...

I hope it helps someone, somewhere. :-) 

I got the best results for an HX FX by buying the cheap-ish Line 6 pedal with a fixed TR cable. 

/starts/
I keep reading posts about TRS expression pedals and whether they work or not with the Line 6 gear. I want to try and help answer this question. This is too complicated to explain fully in a short note like this, but this will hopefully get the principles across. 

At its most basic explanation, the digital device/modeller is actually monitoring voltage and resistance and it's relative position to ground (Sleeve of the jack) As you move the top part of an expression pedal chassis, it changes the amount of voltage and resistance (how much the speed of the current is affected by the potentiometer i.e. resistance) that the expression pedals send back. The Helix/HX measures these changes against zero (Sleeve/ground) to establish values. 

On a TRS pedal jack there are 3 contact points Tip Ring and Sleeve. These are (to use a simple circuit you might get in your home to explain them) are: live/hot (usually Tip), neutral/ring (usually Ring) and earth/ground (pretty much always the sleeve connector). The jack inside the TRS pedal varies the electrical movements via the resistance that occurs when the voltage passes through the pot (which changes the currents speed via resistance) and returning voltage which are then read and converted to digital by the Line 6 software.... BUT the Line 6 gear is TS and so the Ring and Sleeve on a TS cable are both in contact with the same part of the TS jack and so cancel each other out electrically.

The guys who develop the software to understand all these changes are geniuses and this is a black art. The software is expecting certain criteria (which is where things like the pot size comes in 10, 25k etc) and all these factors affect how the software translates the voltage, resistance etc into digital info. There are lots of comments about other TRS or volume pedals working just fine. “Just fine” is the correct term. Just fine but probably not as good as it can or should be

TheBigDipper

If your happy with the results, then I guess that is all that matters. But for example, a volume pedal pot is not linear, it's logarithmic. It allows a lot less current/signal through at first and then towards the end of the sweep it let’s through proportionally a lot more... An expression pedal pot is linear and returns a predictable proportional return across the sweep. 

It’s like everything in life. Until you have experienced something better, you are happy with what you have -for those of you using TRS expression pedals or a volume pedal to control your Line 6, this is probably the case. People buy more expensive guitars when they can afford to, because they are easier and more accurate to play, sound better and are less likely to go out of tune etc. Equally our Mission pedals are not the cheapest, but that is for a reason..... 

You will get results from a TRS pedal or a volume pedal, but the right tool for the job will ALWAYS get you the BEST results in my experience.

Also using a TS pedal means you will get tech support from Line 6 and Mission. TRS is so unpredictable in terms of results with Line 6 gear (and it even varies from brand to brand) that the tech support answer has to be “you need a TS pedal” which is why Dunlop responded like they did in a recent post where their response to a question about their value/expression combo pedal was that it was not the right one for Line 6. Dunlop do understand just how complicated this subject is and did not want to say their pedal works when in reality it does not properly (if I could really explain how this all works with physics equations and electrical diagrams as James showed me - I can tell you it mainly went over my head when James explained it to me (our CEO, founder pedal designer) you would absolutely understand why a TS wired expression pedal is the right way to go for accurate full control of your Line 6 gear

Line 6 have done an excellent job in software solutions such as reverse polarity and calibration etc to help non linear and linear TRS pedals work to some extent, but if you want to hear the results as intended, I would urge you to buy a TS wired pedal whether Mission or not.

/ends/

TheBigDipper

That note I've copied is Mission making the case for the genius of Line 6 designers. If I understand it correctly, that's because they decided to make life simpler for us by only needing a TR cable for expression pedals when everyone else uses TRS.

I should have added that TS pedals for Line 6 products also require a 10kOhm pot value (IIRC) as that value is part of the calculation to tell the modeller where the pedal is in its sweep from 0 to 127. TRS pedals (for other devices) usually ask for a 25kOhm pot value (again, IIRC) but if the pot value is slightly off it doesn't matter (unlike the TR pedal) because the extra wire carries a control voltage that can be used to calculate the pedal position correctly anyway - TR pedals do not. 

nickp

@TheBigDipper   thank you for taking the time to post.  What I got is stop being a skinflint and buy the right tool for the job

Sporky

At least try a mono cable first! 

TheBigDipper

nickp said:

TheBigDipper   thank you for taking the time to post.  What I got is stop being a skinflint and buy the right tool for the job

You're welcome. This question used to come up all the time on the Plethora FB page and an HX FX page I used to visit when I had an HX FX When the chappie from Mission wrote his post, I thought it was worth filing for future reference. And it was! :-) 

PolarityMan

I've not used an external pedal but I can never get the built in once to work as well as a real wah either. The boss gt-10 used to last you tweak the curve in software. I'm surprised the helix doesn't have the ability to