Andertons video became an FRFR critique

Danny1969

it must be hard for shops and in particular Andertons because they thrive on social media engagement. They need to make content to drive business towards them but then the risk is they will make the content, people will watch it and then go to Thomann and buy it. 

The big problem I see now is, no one seems to be  designing anything anymore in totality. Everyone is buying in class D modules, chucking them in a cab ... which could be a PA cab, a studio monitor cab or a "made to look like a guitar" cab and then trying to pretend they have created something radical. It's not radical, it's just generic power amp modules in boxes with speakers. 

Lewy

EricTheWeary said:

I think Guthrie Govan and other pros use FRFR so maybe it  is just spending longer with the gear and getting better at dialling it in. Although if plugging into the back of a cab bypasses the need to spend a day tweaking EQs you have to wonder why they bother. 

I suspect because they're not bothered about whether it sounds like an amp in the room or not,. They're probably as used to hearing even real valve amps mic'd up through monitors as they are hearing the amp moving air straight into their ears....maybe even to the point they prefer it.  I much prefer the sound of a well mic'd and EQ'd amp than one in the room. I also prefer the sound of 4x12 cabs which would be totally impractical for any live gig I'd ever do. 4x12 IR into FRFR wins for me.

Nikc

I watched it and couldn't help thinking there must be a market for a straight up guitar amp which just has a decent power amp section build in. Inputs for your favourite modeller jobs a fish. Maybe a 1 x 12 and a 2 x 12 option - Power amp would probably be big head room solid state. 

digitalscream

Nikc said:

I watched it and couldn't help thinking there must be a market for a straight up guitar amp which just has a decent power amp section build in. Inputs for your favourite modeller jobs a fish. Maybe a 1 x 12 and a 2 x 12 option - Power amp would probably be big head room solid state. 

So...just a powered guitar cab.

Make it something lightweight, like the Matrix NL212, and throw a Powerstage 170 in there. I can certainly vouch for that combination.

EricTheWeary

Nikc said:

I watched it and couldn't help thinking there must be a market for a straight up guitar amp which just has a decent power amp section build in. Inputs for your favourite modeller jobs a fish. Maybe a 1 x 12 and a 2 x 12 option - Power amp would probably be big head room solid state. 

There was one. I can't remember what it was called but it was exactly that (as I remember it). Obviously didn't sell all that well. Had optional things to house a POD and similar? 

Danny1969

I built a little head that uses the stereo version of the PS170 amp. It can be used as a clean power amp into a 2 X 12 or similar but it also has a socket that accepts a module. The module can contain digital models or simple analog circuits. I only made one module using the guts of a Nux plug. My thinking was if a real company made it then people could buy modules from third parties in the same way Nintendo built the console and other companies made games that fitted in the slot. 

My amp has 2 x balanced DI outs, USB and footswitch change facility. This is a crap video I took on my phone and the amp is a lashup compared to what a real company could do but the idea is sound I think 

NickBotfield

EricTheWeary said:

Nikc said:

I watched it and couldn't help thinking there must be a market for a straight up guitar amp which just has a decent power amp section build in. Inputs for your favourite modeller jobs a fish. Maybe a 1 x 12 and a 2 x 12 option - Power amp would probably be big head room solid state. 

There was one. I can't remember what it was called but it was exactly that (as I remember it). Obviously didn't sell all that well. Had optional things to house a POD and similar? 

I remember that!  The Atomic Reactor?

flying_pie

Danny1969 said:

I built a little head that uses the stereo version of the PS170 amp. It can be used as a clean power amp into a 2 X 12 or similar but it also has a socket that accepts a module. The module can contain digital models or simple analog circuits. I only made one module using the guts of a Nux plug. My thinking was if a real company made it then people could buy modules from third parties in the same way Nintendo built the console and other companies made games that fitted in the slot. 

My amp has 2 x balanced DI outs, USB and footswitch change facility. This is a crap video I took on my phone and the amp is a lashup compared to what a real company could do but the idea is sound I think 

So a digital version of the Synergy amp?

EricTheWeary

NickBotfield said:

EricTheWeary said:

Nikc said:

I watched it and couldn't help thinking there must be a market for a straight up guitar amp which just has a decent power amp section build in. Inputs for your favourite modeller jobs a fish. Maybe a 1 x 12 and a 2 x 12 option - Power amp would probably be big head room solid state. 

There was one. I can't remember what it was called but it was exactly that (as I remember it). Obviously didn't sell all that well. Had optional things to house a POD and similar? 

I remember that!  The Atomic Reactor?

That's it! I had remembered Atomic but my googling didn't bring anything up. 
I can't remember the details but yes combo designed to amplify your favourite modeller. Perhaps it was just ahead of it's time. 

Danny1969

@flying_pie ;

The modules can be analog or digital. The actual power amp is class D, the same module as used in the Tonemasters and Seymour Duncan PowerStage amps. 

Some circuits just aren't worth modelling. take a Tubescreamer or Boss OD1 for example. The component count is very small, likewise all the fave drive pedals. You could buy a module with TS, OD-1, Timmy etc in analog plus digital delay, reverb and amp sim in digital that plugs into the amp. This type of electronics is cheap to manufacture as it's done automatically on pick n place machines and flow soldered. What drives the price of pedals up it the enclosures, the jack sockets, the pots and the human hands that do all that work the machines can't do. 

digitalscream

EricTheWeary said:

NickBotfield said:

EricTheWeary said:

Nikc said:

I watched it and couldn't help thinking there must be a market for a straight up guitar amp which just has a decent power amp section build in. Inputs for your favourite modeller jobs a fish. Maybe a 1 x 12 and a 2 x 12 option - Power amp would probably be big head room solid state. 

There was one. I can't remember what it was called but it was exactly that (as I remember it). Obviously didn't sell all that well. Had optional things to house a POD and similar? 

I remember that!  The Atomic Reactor?

That's it! I had remembered Atomic but my googling didn't bring anything up. 
I can't remember the details but yes combo designed to amplify your favourite modeller. Perhaps it was just ahead of it's time. 

Well, kinda. The speaker was a weird cross between a guitar speaker and full-range, and it didn't really work particularly well as either. I had one, and it was basically impossible to get it to sound good with any configuration using my Eleven Rack (at the time).

Lewy

EricTheWeary said:

Nikc said:

I watched it and couldn't help thinking there must be a market for a straight up guitar amp which just has a decent power amp section build in. Inputs for your favourite modeller jobs a fish. Maybe a 1 x 12 and a 2 x 12 option - Power amp would probably be big head room solid state. 

There was one. I can't remember what it was called but it was exactly that (as I remember it). Obviously didn't sell all that well. Had optional things to house a POD and similar? 

Tech 21 made one to go with their SansAmps and Mesa even had a valve one called the Satellite. 

EricTheWeary

Lewy said:

EricTheWeary said:

Nikc said:

I watched it and couldn't help thinking there must be a market for a straight up guitar amp which just has a decent power amp section build in. Inputs for your favourite modeller jobs a fish. Maybe a 1 x 12 and a 2 x 12 option - Power amp would probably be big head room solid state. 

There was one. I can't remember what it was called but it was exactly that (as I remember it). Obviously didn't sell all that well. Had optional things to house a POD and similar? 

Tech 21 made one to go with their SansAmps and Mesa even had a valve one called the Satellite. 

I vaguely remember the Tech 21 one although more of a powered extension cab for their combos? Maybe that was another thing. 

StefB

EricTheWeary said:

Lewy said:

EricTheWeary said:

Nikc said:

I watched it and couldn't help thinking there must be a market for a straight up guitar amp which just has a decent power amp section build in. Inputs for your favourite modeller jobs a fish. Maybe a 1 x 12 and a 2 x 12 option - Power amp would probably be big head room solid state. 

There was one. I can't remember what it was called but it was exactly that (as I remember it). Obviously didn't sell all that well. Had optional things to house a POD and similar? 

Tech 21 made one to go with their SansAmps and Mesa even had a valve one called the Satellite. 

I vaguely remember the Tech 21 one although more of a powered extension cab for their combos? Maybe that was another thing. 

The Power Engine?

There’s an updated range geared towards modern modellers I believe and they even did a short run of 4x10s towards the end of the 60w v1 models. 

https://ebay.us/m/ILrw9t

Nerine

What I found when using a FRFR solution with modeller or modeller with guitar amp or PA speaker/monitor or modeller with power amp and guitar cab, I was forever buying things to “help” with the experience. The net result, in reality, ended up being no more versatile or portable in real world terms than a valve head into a good 1x12 cab. 

I’d really like to know the rationale for buying an FRFR cab (that looks like a guitar cab) to put behind you on stage. At that point, just use an amp, IMO. 

mrleon83

That vid came out the afternoon after I sold my FR12…

when I was gigging regularly it was fine.. but I plugged into the fx loop of my boogie and it was just amazing… so I gotta agree with danish pete ..

im going to have another play around with IRs into my monitors, I had the the treble way higher when plugged into the valve amp with no IR, so it will be cool to test settings that sound good into the amp and find an ir to suit..

IRs are an absolute rabbit hole .. 

nick79

I’ve never really got on with frfr cabinets. 

I just spend so long tinkering trying different ir’s and settings and even then it never sounds right.
I’ve found the best compromise is my tonex or hx stomp into my Powerstation and then into a cab. 

Sounds great and most times just as good as using a ‘real’ amp pre amp. 

newi123

I've played various solutions live over the past few years from boutique valve to cheap valve to frfr to boss multi fx direct to pa.

I really must put together a video montage and get folks to vote on whats what and preferred sound in an actual live band situation.

Nikc

digitalscream said:

Nikc said:

I watched it and couldn't help thinking there must be a market for a straight up guitar amp which just has a decent power amp section build in. Inputs for your favourite modeller jobs a fish. Maybe a 1 x 12 and a 2 x 12 option - Power amp would probably be big head room solid state. 

So...just a powered guitar cab.

Make it something lightweight, like the Matrix NL212, and throw a Powerstage 170 in there. I can certainly vouch for that combination.

Yep - just a decent powered guitar cab with your whatever you model with straight in and a master make it louder knob

It just strikes me that with the amazing amount of modelling tech available now that a straight up powered guitar cab would be so much better than an FRFR cab.

Lewy

Nerine said:

I’d really like to know the rationale for buying an FRFR cab (that looks like a guitar cab) to put behind you on stage. At that point, just use an amp, IMO. 

Honestly I think half of why I like it is I can fit using my modeller into playing scenarios that are only really geared up to someone turning up with an amp and having it behind them on stage, the most regular one being a small band gig where the only thing going through the pa is vocals and there's nobody doing FOH sound. The last gig I did with a great PA and sound guy I was more than happy with just hearing my guitar through foldback. 

"Why not just use an amp?"....because I don't want to. I like the fact that I can get any conceivable sound I could want out of my modeller. I don't use more than a couple at a time in any given setting but I am totally off the GAS tone chasing hamster wheel because with my current setup there's nothing I could ever want to do that I can't do. I also much prefer produced guitar sounds - with things like delay, reverb, EQ and even compression at the very end of the chain, not before the power amp and speaker. Can't do that with an amp. I also don't particularly like the sound of 1x12 combos which are the only amps I could practically use at home or on small gigs, and I especially don't like them in the fairly small space of my music room.

Another reason is consistency across playing scenarios. 80% of my playing is at home, either practicing or recording. I don't want to have to completely switch approach for a gig, with a home rig and a leaving-the-house rig. With the total investment of about 2 hours, which led me to dialling in a great EQ block to compensate for overall loudness/Fletcher Munson etc, I can use any of my home presets live and I have a reliable way of making presets at home that will work live. 

Another is that sometimes I'll be playing with someone using a conventional amp. Using an FRFR positioned like an amp makes for a more balanced overall sound in that scenario - it would sound weird having one guitar coming out of an amp and one coming out of the PA.

Plenty of rationales...those are just a couple of mine. Danish Pete doesn't "get it"....that's fine. Based on his line of bants, the more divergence between him and me the better as far as I'm concerned