Best option for amp modeller/effects unit

MikeWoodward

Hi

Hoping to get some advice on the best value amp modeller/ effects units for my situation.

I’m a typical spare room home guitarist playing for my own pleasure - don’t have any particular aspirations to go out gigging but in the future, who knows….

I’ve got a pretty decent set up of good Fender Strat, Blackstar HT 5R Tube amp, pedal board including Boss OC5, Strymon Cloudburst Reverb and Strymon Brig. Acoustically I play a Taylor with a Fender Acoustic Amp. I also have Focusrite Scarlett 4i4 audio interface, headphones and 
Eris 3.5 monitors.

Software I use includes TONESTACK PRO which seems to offer a lot of the amp modelling/effects found on more expensive options.

I’ve been researching amp modellers/ effects units and whilst I love the sound of/useability of the Quad Cortex ( and could probably afford it) I don’t want spend money just for the sake of it, paying for features I will never use.

So, any advice for the best value amp modeller/effects units? My wishlist would include:

- as high a quality effects as possible
- a smaller range of quality effects preferable to a large range of average effects
- easy of use, probably with decent size touch screen and click/drag capability 
- at least 1 effects loop ( to integrate Strymon Pedals)
- amp capturing is not a requirement
- works with both acoustic and electric guitars

Any help gratefully appreciated

Mike

thomasw88

I’d go for a fractal vp4.  You’re getting the best quality effects (4 at a time), then add either something like tonex one or one of the other amp sim pedals.  Even something like a tech 21 blonde, or  joyo equivalent will sound great in the loop of the vp4.  Plus it’ll be supported for years, is easy to use, and really does sound significantly better than the line 6, boss etc equivalents.  

topdog91

Have you read previous threads on this? Not being arsey because you definitely invested in the post, but they're all good these days and arguably good value (subjective) and most people will probably recommend what they use. If they sound *bad* that's usually user error.

Having more worse effects vs few better effects is a false dichtomy. Again, most newer units sound great and are hard to tell apart especially in a mix. To my ears, Fractal have always sounded the best but you'll pay for it and it's marginal.

You will always pay for features that you don't use, that's the nature of the market, but who cares? Features that you don't use don't cause a problem by existing. In a past life I had an Axe-Fx II set up at home for practice and recording and barely touched the settings in two years as I loved the sound so much.

Touch screens are relatively rare (and expensive) on these devices. The Helix Floor is on its way out so relatively cheap especially second hand and it does have the touch footswitches which I find useful for simple tweaking, even live.

I think without clear goals in mind, you are likely to fall into option paralysis / grass is greener syndrome. I've been using a Helix live (effects only) for a while now and it sounds great, but I still have that mmm Fractal urge, then I remember how easy the Helix is to tweak and I'm content. I'd just get something cheap and second hand (POD GO? Valeton?) for starters and see how you get on making music which is the easiest thing to forget in this situation.

MikeWoodward

thomasw88 said:

I’d go for a fractal vp4.  You’re getting the best quality effects (4 at a time), then add either something like tonex one or one of the other amp sim pedals.  Even something like a tech 21 blonde, or  joyo equivalent will sound great in the loop of the vp4.  Plus it’ll be supported for years, is easy to use, and really does sound significantly better than the line 6, boss etc equivalents.  

Thanks for the advice 

Much appreciated

Mike

MikeWoodward

topdog91 said:

Have you read previous threads on this? Not being arsey because you definitely invested in the post, but they're all good these days and arguably good value (subjective) and most people will probably recommend what they use. If they sound *bad* that's usually user error.

Having more worse effects vs few better effects is a false dichtomy. Again, most newer units sound great and are hard to tell apart especially in a mix. To my ears, Fractal have always sounded the best but you'll pay for it and it's marginal.

You will always pay for features that you don't use, that's the nature of the market, but who cares? Features that you don't use don't cause a problem by existing. In a past life I had an Axe-Fx II set up at home for practice and recording and barely touched the settings in two years as I loved the sound so much.

Touch screens are relatively rare (and expensive) on these devices. The Helix Floor is on its way out so relatively cheap especially second hand and it does have the touch footswitches which I find useful for simple tweaking, even live.

I think without clear goals in mind, you are likely to fall into option paralysis / grass is greener syndrome. I've been using a Helix live (effects only) for a while now and it sounds great, but I still have that mmm Fractal urge, then I remember how easy the Helix is to tweak and I'm content. I'd just get something cheap and second hand (POD GO? Valeton?) for starters and see how you get on making music which is the easiest thing to forget in this situation.

Thanks for the advice 

Much appreciated

Mike

Heartfeltdawn

MikeWoodward said:

I’ve been researching amp modellers/ effects units and whilst I love the sound of/useability of the Quad Cortex ( and could probably afford it) I don’t want spend money just for the sake of it, paying for features I will never use.

So, any advice for the best value amp modeller/effects units? My wishlist would include:

- as high a quality effects as possible
- a smaller range of quality effects preferable to a large range of average effects
- easy of use, probably with decent size touch screen and click/drag capability 
- at least 1 effects loop ( to integrate Strymon Pedals)
- amp capturing is not a requirement
- works with both acoustic and electric guitars

Just buy an HX Stomp secondhand. Get in there, piss about with it, see what it does. Resale on these means it'll hold its value well. Maybe £350 for a s/h one. 

And don't worry about the lack of touchscreen. 

Voxman

@MikeWoodward 3 Questions if I may:
1. What's your budget?
2. What experience have you had with digital modelling mfx?
3. What do you feel is missing from your current set up that you really need?

nick79

Hx stomp is my vote. As Heartfeltdawn says, pick up a used one and you can’t lose really.

Very easy to navigate, lots of good quality amps and effects. I’ve had mine for 5 years and it’s such a useful thing to have. 

Currently just using for nice reverbs and tremolo effects but i have used it as an all in one before 

MikeWoodward

Heartfeltdawn said:

MikeWoodward said:

I’ve been researching amp modellers/ effects units and whilst I love the sound of/useability of the Quad Cortex ( and could probably afford it) I don’t want spend money just for the sake of it, paying for features I will never use.

So, any advice for the best value amp modeller/effects units? My wishlist would include:

- as high a quality effects as possible
- a smaller range of quality effects preferable to a large range of average effects
- easy of use, probably with decent size touch screen and click/drag capability 
- at least 1 effects loop ( to integrate Strymon Pedals)
- amp capturing is not a requirement
- works with both acoustic and electric guitars

Just buy an HX Stomp secondhand. Get in there, piss about with it, see what it does. Resale on these means it'll hold its value well. Maybe £350 for a s/h one. 

And don't worry about the lack of touchscreen. 

Thanks for the advice 

Much appreciated

Mike

MikeWoodward

nick79 said:

Hx stomp is my vote. As Heartfeltdawn says, pick up a used one and you can’t lose really.

Very easy to navigate, lots of good quality amps and effects. I’ve had mine for 5 years and it’s such a useful thing to have. 

Currently just using for nice reverbs and tremolo effects but i have used it as an all in one before 

Thanks for the advice 

Much appreciated

Mike

MikeWoodward

Voxman said:

@MikeWoodward 3 Questions if I may:
1. What's your budget?
2. What experience have you had with digital modelling mfx?
3. What do you feel is missing from your current set up that you really need?

Thanks for replying

1. Probably £1500 (finance deal!) although don’t want to spend for the sake of it.
2. Very little although have built up some relevant knowledge like routings (Scarlett 4i4), software such as ToneStack Pro and numerous you-tube videos. Even downloaded the Quad Cortex Manual even though I don’t own one and was surprised how much sense it made! 
3. I guess range of effects (especially compressors, overdrives, distortion, chorus) and obviously a greater range of amp/cab options would be nice, but I guess some of the motivation is to try to simplify my set up. 

Bonus info!

4.  At least 1 stereo effects loop ( to integrate Strymon Pedals) and the unit should have the ability to function as an audio interface.

Voxman

MikeWoodward said:

Voxman said:

@MikeWoodward 3 Questions if I may:
1. What's your budget?
2. What experience have you had with digital modelling mfx?
3. What do you feel is missing from your current set up that you really need?

Thanks for replying

1. Probably £1500 (finance deal!) although don’t want to spend for the sake of it.
2. Very little although have built up some relevant knowledge like routings (Scarlett 4i4), software such as ToneStack Pro and numerous you-tube videos. Even downloaded the Quad Cortex Manual even though I don’t own one and was surprised how much sense it made! 
3. I guess range of effects (especially compressors, overdrives, distortion, chorus) and obviously a greater range of amp/cab options would be nice, but I guess some of the motivation is to try to simplify my set up. 

Bonus info!

4.  At least 1 stereo effects loop ( to integrate Strymon Pedals) and the unit should have the ability to function as an audio interface.

OK, thanks for that, & for the bonus info. I was going to suggest the Boss GX100 (circa £469) which would meet nearly all your needs, and is crammed with Boss effects plus AIRD amp modelling, but it only has a mono fx loop so doesn't meet your requirement for a stereo fx loop. 

You really don't need to spend £1,500. My suggested solution to meet all your needs is the Headrush Flex Prime mfx





Only £439 from Andertons this offers incredible bang for buck. It has a very powerful processor with instant patch switching, and onboard WiFi to connect to Headrush Cloud to share and access a wealth of patches. 5 different signal paths types, so very flexible. Full audio interface and you can even reamp if you're into recording. Robust build, solid metal casing.

Fast clear touchscreen, expression pedal, can run up to 14 blocks, total of 600 high quality amps, cabs, mics and fx, hands free editing via expression pedal (brilliant for fast live tweaking) WiFi editing, 3 fully assignable foot switches, Bluetooth audio for mobiles, full audio interface. And it has a stereo fx loop. Compact, light. Built in practice tool. Handles IRs. Built in looper up to to 5 mins long and you can save your loops. 

Fuller info here: https://www.headrushfx.com/products/flex-prime/index.html
Very useful FAQ here: https://support.headrushfx.com/en/support/solutions/articles/69000862403-headrush-flex-prime-frequently-asked-questions

DOWNSIDES

Only 3 control switches might be restrictive for gigging but you can add an external expression pedal if needed. 

Fuller info here, as there's a lot more it can do:

https://www.headrushfx.com/products/flex-prime/index.html

willo

If you're after the highest quality, get a Fractal. FM3 or 9.

People say it's complicated but the complexity is optional: for me it has been simpler than Helix because it is much quicker and easier to get a great tone without any advanced parameters. 

welshboyo

Agree with @willo above here - don’t bugger about, just go for the Fractal, they are not complicated at all…

MikeWoodward

Voxman said:

MikeWoodward said:

Voxman said:

@MikeWoodward 3 Questions if I may:
1. What's your budget?
2. What experience have you had with digital modelling mfx?
3. What do you feel is missing from your current set up that you really need?

Thanks for replying

1. Probably £1500 (finance deal!) although don’t want to spend for the sake of it.
2. Very little although have built up some relevant knowledge like routings (Scarlett 4i4), software such as ToneStack Pro and numerous you-tube videos. Even downloaded the Quad Cortex Manual even though I don’t own one and was surprised how much sense it made! 
3. I guess range of effects (especially compressors, overdrives, distortion, chorus) and obviously a greater range of amp/cab options would be nice, but I guess some of the motivation is to try to simplify my set up. 

Bonus info!

4.  At least 1 stereo effects loop ( to integrate Strymon Pedals) and the unit should have the ability to function as an audio interface.

OK, thanks for that, & for the bonus info. I was going to suggest the Boss GX100 (circa £469) which would meet nearly all your needs, and is crammed with Boss effects plus AIRD amp modelling, but it only has a mono fx loop so doesn't meet your requirement for a stereo fx loop. 

You really don't need to spend £1,500. My suggested solution to meet all your needs is the Headrush Flex Prime mfx





Only £439 from Andertons this offers incredible bang for buck. It has a very powerful processor with instant patch switching, and onboard WiFi to connect to Headrush Cloud to share and access a wealth of patches. 5 different signal paths types, so very flexible. Full audio interface and you can even reamp if you're into recording. Robust build, solid metal casing.

Fast clear touchscreen, expression pedal, can run up to 14 blocks, total of 600 high quality amps, cabs, mics and fx, hands free editing via expression pedal (brilliant for fast live tweaking) WiFi editing, 3 fully assignable foot switches, Bluetooth audio for mobiles, full audio interface. And it has a stereo fx loop. Compact, light. Built in practice tool. Handles IRs. Built in looper up to to 5 mins long and you can save your loops. 

Fuller info here: https://www.headrushfx.com/products/flex-prime/index.html
Very useful FAQ here: https://support.headrushfx.com/en/support/solutions/articles/69000862403-headrush-flex-prime-frequently-asked-questions

DOWNSIDES

Only 3 control switches might be restrictive for gigging but you can add an external expression pedal if needed. 

Fuller info here, as there's a lot more it can do:

https://www.headrushfx.com/products/flex-prime/index.html

Wow - really helpful thank you

Roland

willo said:

If you're after the highest quality, get a Fractal. FM3 or 9.

People say it's complicated but the complexity is optional: for me it has been simpler than Helix because it is much quicker and easier to get a great tone without any advanced parameters. 

… and you won’t need the Strymon pedals because Fractal Delays and Reverbs are as good or better. So after a brief period of comparison with the FM9 you could sell them off to help fund the purchase. As always, buying secondhand helps keep the cost down too.

Voxman

Roland said:

willo said:

If you're after the highest quality, get a Fractal. FM3 or 9.

People say it's complicated but the complexity is optional: for me it has been simpler than Helix because it is much quicker and easier to get a great tone without any advanced parameters. 

… and you won’t need the Strymon pedals because Fractal Delays and Reverbs are as good or better. So after a brief period of comparison with the FM9 you could sell them off to help fund the purchase. As always, buying secondhand helps keep the cost down too.

The problem with this type of thread is that there's a tendency for folk, with the best of intentions, to recommend something that they have and just because they think its the bees knees, it's assumed this will be right for others.  There's no argument that Fractal, Quad Cortex etc are great sounding pieces of professional gear.  But the OP is new to DSP modelling and in my view he needs to learn to walk before he can run. He needs a unit that's easy to use, has everything in it that he needs to have fun at home with and if he should decide that DSP gear isn't for him, he hasn't spent a fortune on it. Nowadays there are tons of mfx units under £500 that sound terrific and offer incredible bang for buck. The law of diminishing returns means you can pay three times that for maybe 20% better quality. Understandably this can be well worth it to someone experienced who wants what they perceive as top quality, but in my view it's unnecessary for a newbie.

Also the FM3/9 don't have a touch screen which was one of @MikeWoodward requirements. These also have no integral expression pedal so, assuming he needs this, he'd have to buy this separately to add on and I'm assuming to play at home he'd probably like to try experimenting with wah's, and learning how an expression pedal can quickly alter parameters eg changing univibe or rotary speed, chorus depth etc.

Also I've tried an FM9. It's a great quality unit of course but in my view its complex to get your head round with loads of menus, and it has its 'quirks'. I've used and owned DSP gear since the latter half of the 90's when the Boss GT5 and later the GT3 were released, and I have a Pod Go, so I'm used to this menu driven approach with Line 6 and Boss gear.  For someone new to digital modelling it would be like a complete learner driver trying to manage a Ferrari.  My concern is that Mike might spend more time tweaking than playing, & get frustrated. In my view, it's massive overkill and I think Mike would be best starting with something like the Headrush Flex prime which will be more fun to use and give him everything he's currently after, with an easy to use clear touch screen, and that will still let him use the Strymon he likes and is familiar with.  He could even pick up a used one for around £350.

Once Mike has got his head round digital modelling and if he likes it conceptually but wants to upgrade say in a years time, he can always sell the Headrush and buy something more sophisticated.  And with the new Helix Stadium coming to stores very soon, and which have a touch screen and Line 6's latest modelling, I suspect will prove hugely popular, and in a years time prices of these will likely be a bit lower than their launch prices and some might even come up second hand.  

sweepy

If you have £1500 then go for a Fractal FM9, you won't regret it

Axe2Grind

@MikeWoodward,

I am a Fractal FM3 owner and I love it. It has a simpler FX chain than the FM9, Axe-Fx III , cheaper but still there is a ton of features which could overwhelm depending on how technical you are.

My recommendation would be a Kemper Player @ £599 (but shop around)

Kemper Profiler Player Amp Profiler and Multi FX Pedal - Andertons Music Co.It has all the essential effects, it has some factory installed amp profiles which would probably do but you can install 3rd party kemper profiles too (This unit is basically a Kemper without the capturing controls etc). Its very compact and most important, sounds great. If I hadn't of already had an FM3 when this little unit came out, I would be an owner of one myself and I've been tempted to sell the FM3 and get this instead. You could also integrate your existing pedals with this little unit too. 

Anyhow, hope you end up getting something that suits your needs and your wallet

Roland

Voxman said: The problem with this type of thread is that there's a tendency for folk, with the best of intentions, to recommend something that they have and just because they think its the bees knees,..  

I thought twice before suggesting it because I suspected that I would get a response like this. One of Mike’s requirements is quality effects, and there’s no doubting that the FM9 provides that. 

 I also worried about budget. Then I remembered that the Strymons wouldn’t be needed because the FM9 more than matches them in sound quality, and beats them in versatility. That removes the need for extra wiring and boxes on the floor. Cost wise a secondhand FM3 or FM9, less the resale on the Strymons, is in the same price bracket as many other options. As with any of them, bought secondhand, the resale value is only going to take a hit if a replacement hits the market. So it could be a toe-in-the-water.

The bigger cost in any multiFX, even going back to the Boss ME-6, is the time and effort required to understand them. People focus on the effort of configuring a particular device. In reality the biggest cost is in learning what FX can do, and how to use them to achieve particular sounds. That’s an argument for starting on an architecture which you might ultimately end up with.

So I understand your argument, particularly about what else is available, but I think a secondhand FM9 needs consideration.

Voxman

Roland said:

Voxman said: The problem with this type of thread is that there's a tendency for folk, with the best of intentions, to recommend something that they have and just because they think its the bees knees,..  

I thought twice before suggesting it because I suspected that I would get a response like this. One of Mike’s requirements is quality effects, and there’s no doubting that the FM9 provides that. 

 I also worried about budget. Then I remembered that the Strymons wouldn’t be needed because the FM9 more than matches them in sound quality, and beats them in versatility. That removes the need for extra wiring and boxes on the floor. Cost wise a secondhand FM3 or FM9, less the resale on the Strymons, is in the same price bracket as many other options. As with any of them, bought secondhand, the resale value is only going to take a hit if a replacement hits the market. So it could be a toe-in-the-water.

The bigger cost in any multiFX, even going back to the Boss ME-6, is the time and effort required to understand them. People focus on the effort of configuring a particular device. In reality the biggest cost is in learning what FX can do, and how to use them to achieve particular sounds. That’s an argument for starting on an architecture which you might ultimately end up with.

So I understand your argument, particularly about what else is available, but I think a secondhand FM9 needs consideration.

@Roland ;I don't necessarily disagree with any of that.  Wherever possible its always a good idea of course to try before buying wherever practical, but that isn't normally an option with used gear. With that in mind and for whichever option Mike decides to go for, Fractal, Headrush, Helix or otherwise, buying new from someone like Thomann does have the strong advantage that he has up to 30 days no quibble option to return it for a full refund. This means Mike has a sensible period in which to hear and use it but has a return safety net should he decide it's not for him.  I fully agree that used is often better value (but on occasion there may be faults with used gear, and returns & refunds can be awkward sometimes). But in this case for a DSP newbie I would suggest new from eg Thomann for safety/flexibility & come back.