Gig Realm

Snags

Anyone here been forced onto it by venues/breweries?

We've signed up because one of our regular landladies has walked away from the pub we used to play at, and is concentrating on one where the chain insist on it. I've currently got a support query in because they make a big thing about all gigs being covered by a contract, but it seems this contract only comes into being when you accept an offer from the venue, and prior to that there is no information as to what it contains.

I'm sure it's just standard stuff, but that strikes me as a massive "get fucked, sunshine" and disinclines me to use the system. I also can't see what Gig Realm brings to the table for either venue or artist, other than possibly allowing a brewery to have greater control over landlord's disbursements.

Anyone got any previous experience?

Supportact

I've not come across this at all and have no experience of them. But for pub gigs I've always dealt directly with the pub or a local promoter sometimes who's putting on a night there. I don't really see the point in a third party getting involved as it seems pretty straightforward as it is. 

I also feel better if someone at the pub has booked you because they've seen you somewhere or they like what you do. At least then you know they actually want you there and there's a relationship. I'm suspicious that this puts an extra layer in between that relationship.  

Snags

Yeah, we normally deal direct with personal relationships. However, some chains are using services to manage payments etc. 

I've just read the Terms of Service that state everyone is bound by the GigContract but still doesn't say what the contract contains. Fucking amateur hour.

Supportact

Snags said:

Yeah, we normally deal direct with personal relationships. However, some chains are using services to manage payments etc. 

I've just read the Terms of Service that state everyone is bound by the GigContract but still doesn't say what the contract contains. Fucking amateur hour.

Yeah that doesn't seem normal.  You can't be bound by a contract you haven't seen. 

ESBlonde

I don’t do many pubs, I did our local a few times because the young couple running it were professional and very likeable. Sadly Green King insist on signing up to a third party agency for payment of the already small fee. I won’t be playing there anymore.
I suspect HMRC have leaned on the brewery about the black economy and they don’t care since it’s it’s no extra work for them.

P.S. If the pubs/breweries want to act professional and impose professional standards, perhaps they could start with paying MU rates to their performers! 

Snags

Just in case anyone else does get caught up with a pub/chain using GigRealm:

• they appear to be an absolute shithouse of an organisation; I have tried three different routes to find out what the "GigContract" contained and received no response via any of them (internal chat bot, support links, direct email)
• we accepted the gig offer we had, after which I was allowed to see the GigContract. So it's almost certainly not binding
• nothing in it is particularly bad, and there is a clause that states the band get paid if the venue cancel with less than 72 hours notice
• however, they're too crap to get the agreed times correct; or rather, in the "contract" they use UTC instead of the prevailing local time, so I can see some bands getting muddled by this
• I'll report back post-gig (31st Jan next year) on how the payment process goes - nominally 14 days but we'll see

At the end of the day it's obviously a system that exists to grant a brewery/chain a degree of control over individual landlords. It kills the cash payments, gives an audit trail, let's landlords blame "budget restriction" on lower fees (we're doing this gig for £50 less than normal, against a jam tomorrow promise we don't believe), and gets a middle-man organisation a cut of something they have no need to get involved with. So my personal take-away is that it's shit and we'll be doing our best to avoid it and similar schemes wherever possible.

Snags

In the interests of fairness, I have just received a sample contract from their support people, just under a week after first asking.

ScreamingDave

I know I’m a grumpy old git, but it just seems like another example of some bright spark coming up with yet another third party app or web service that nobody really wants or needs.  An answer to a question no one’s asking. 

I wonder if, in the long run I can see these pubs having to pay more for bands because the only bands that will sign up to this sort of service will be the uber polished function bands who are already fine with paying agents, etc.  

Us grumpy old bloke bands are a dying breed! 

Snags

AFAICS it's exactly that, @ScreamingDave ;. Or rather, it's a "time saving" (ha!) tool sold to venues (the venues pay for it, not the bands) that allows an overarching organisation to micromanage their landlords more.

Looking at the open offers on it, it's not going to drive fees for bands up, that's for sure (£150 for new year's eve, anyone?). I can see us only using it for venues in this particular chain where it's mandated. And if we can't get our normal fee next time, they can fuck off.

Supportact

Snags said:

AFAICS it's exactly that, @ScreamingDave ;. Or rather, it's a "time saving" (ha!) tool sold to venues (the venues pay for it, not the bands) that allows an overarching organisation to micromanage their landlords more.

Looking at the open offers on it, it's not going to drive fees for bands up, that's for sure (£150 for new year's eve, anyone?). I can see us only using it for venues in this particular chain where it's mandated. And if we can't get our normal fee next time, they can fuck off.

Hahaha what kind of band are they going to get on New Year's Eve for £150? 

ScreamingDave

Supportact said:

Snags said:

AFAICS it's exactly that, @ScreamingDave ;. Or rather, it's a "time saving" (ha!) tool sold to venues (the venues pay for it, not the bands) that allows an overarching organisation to micromanage their landlords more.

Looking at the open offers on it, it's not going to drive fees for bands up, that's for sure (£150 for new year's eve, anyone?). I can see us only using it for venues in this particular chain where it's mandated. And if we can't get our normal fee next time, they can fuck off.

Hahaha what kind of band are they going to get on New Year's Eve for £150? 

I’ll play spoons for them ….

…… for about 20 min or so

shufflebeat

Supportact said:

Snags said: …(£150 for new year's eve, anyone?).

Hahaha what kind of band are they going to get on New Year's Eve for £150? 

I’m fairly confident musical content is not the main priority in this scenario.

Ultimately it doesn’t matter, one of the easiest roles to replace with AI will be the crowd-pleaser troubadour so we might as well get our artistic ducks in a row while we wait for the backlash (maybe).

Snags

Amusingly I saw a snippet of a DJ reddit where the DJs were all bitching about only getting £150 a night for pub gigs. Was very tempted to say "Trying being in a band and splitting £350 four or five ways ..."

Rkphilpot

I've found the gig scene becoming increasingly unprofessional and cheap over the last 5 years.
 - No promotion
 - Wrong pictures uploaded when they do promote
 - Bad comms, if any
 - No information on any access issues, like bus lanes etc
 - £100 for a 2 hour set on a Friday night
Happy to charge £7 a pint mind.
I'm growing very tired of it all tbh, faffing about with an app would be a no for me